Do you feel guilty about being well off?

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Inspired by the thread about big houses. Growing inequality within developed societies is becoming a global issue and was arguably a key factor in Brexit and the election of Trump etc

Many of us have more than we need, much more than others. I say I believe in societal inequality - and I sincerely believe that I do - but apart from reasonable donations to charity and votes for the left of centre candidates (Green, in my case) I'm not really doing anything to disrupt the status quo.

I'm well off, partly because I've worked hard, but mostly (if I'm honest) because I'm lucky and I feel guilty about it.

AIBU? Or is greed just a fundamental part of human nature?

We would consider ourselves to be "comfortably off". But that hasn't always been the case. In the late 80s-early 90s we were very badly off, interest rate on our mortgage had shot through the roof, DH was made redundant, I was working full time as a PA in the city before coming home and doing as many shifts as possible Ina pub AND selling 'smellalike' perfume. I barely covered our bills and we negotiated with our mortgage company to accept reduced payments.

Due to hard work and never borrowing money apart from our mortgage we are now mortgage free and I went back to part time work a few years ago after being a SAHM for many years. It wasn't easy to get here so we enjoy every bit of it.

I feel guilty;

I was brought up in, I suppose 'poverty'. We lived in the East End of London. My father was a clergyman, my mother, a physio. We did not own our house as it was a vicarage which comes with the parish as clergymen can't afford (or couldn't then in the 60s, 70, and 80s) to buy their own house. We had jumble sale clothes and my mother's excitement at having a 'perk' in that she had 20 minutes before 'doors opening' was always appreciated. She was quite bitter about how badly off we were though, and we had regular donations from 'Daughters of the Poor Clergy'...(.the equivalent being the same for sons).
I now live in a lovely house, have worked hard to go up the ladder in nursing (but will never be well off from my job)

I married a doctor who, because of family money, we have managed to have a lovely house. But we have not privately educated our children (mainly from a principle POV ) and but we have been lucky with our state education.

My husband works stupid hours but doesn't do private work as a state of principle so throws himself into financial and other recognition from
trying to improve the local NHS service .

So we are well off, (though don't overspend and don't have skiing holidays but do have one lovely 2 week holiday abroad a year.
We are comfortably off but I feel terribly guilty looking back on my own upbringing.

I can go to Waitrose, I can buy, (within reason) reasonably nice clothes for all of us, we have a nice holiday. But I still feel wretchedly guilty,; But that is a legacy from childhood rather than anything else.

I give to charities of my choosing, I do give to street beggars (partly as I was brought up with tramps coming to our door and having to make tea and sandwiches, They were a daily occurrence. I do know some are fraudulent beggars, but I don't know which.
My husband has none of my guilt and I struggle to get over it a bit, but I never will.
I made my children, (who won £100 in a school raffle) give it to our local homeless charity, It is something a rather regret as I'm transferring my guilt onto them.
Guilt is an intransigent, horrible 'Sword of Damocles' over one, and I wasn't even Catholic!

Thinking about my working class hang ups: I could never send my kid to private school, just couldn't. Dithered for ages about whether to send youngest DC (others are through the school system now) and couldn't bring ourselves to.

I wouldn't call that a working-class hangup, Tinkly -- I'd call it an ethical position.

I gambled hugely on the property market and did places up to keep moving. Massive risk, had loads of very scary debt at one point. Had no heating for 8 years, didn't go on holiday for 15 years.

Paid off. Can afford to get a passport and go on holiday this year. Have a new affordable mortgage and no other debt for the first time in over 20 years.

Never have to move again. Even if we lost our jobs we could rent out a room to cover our mortgage. We have been really lucky/all the risk paid off.

I am what JC would describe as rich and I don't feel guilty, just lucky and I try to give something back to those who aren't as lucky.

Neither of my parents were well-off - but I got a scholarship to a private school (but was lucky because I had a family who really encouraged me to work at my education and could help me with homework etc) then Oxbridge, then lucky enough to get a job I love which pays well (Corbyn would describe me as rich and I'm mid 30s) and which I work hard at.

I'm aware how much luckier I am than most people so have always done some kind of volunteering - be it helping out in a charity shop, offering my professional services pro bono to a couple of charities, running a tiny charity in my spare time a few years ago, being a school governor etc.

There is no point in feeling guilty. Just do something about it to help people who are less lucky than you are and enjoy your life. And remember to be thankful for how lucky you are!

No.

Next question.

No I don't because we have had loads (probably 20+) of lean years and finally all those sacrifices have paid off. DH has spent many of those working away and sacrificed lots of time with the children growing up and I have done everything at home alone as well as working full time.

We also pay an outrageous amount of tax, help my SN DB and elderly parents and give not insignificant amounts to charity.

I too thank my lucky stars every day, and if we lost it all tomorrow I would and could start again.

Yes sometimes I feel guilty. There was v little money around when I was growing up and education was not promoted. It was expected that I would do an entry level job for a few years between school and getting married then I would be a SAHM relying on a man to support me financially. I said bollocks to all that and I am financially comfortable.I do feel guilty at times though that my family do not have what we have.

I would say we are "well off" by any stretch of the imagination but we've had a few jarring comments from friends and family over the years because we have a four bed house, huge loft conversion, double garage and should be mortgage free before 40.

None of it is hand outs, none of it is anything but staying in, skipping fancier holidays and sticking any extra cash into our home. Husband works in a very manual job and I am self employed doing my "dream job" whilst raising our kids as well (tough but it works for us).

We've had a few comments from friends about how it's unfair because they are stuck renting etc but they were offered to stay at their parents etc but they just "had to move out" etc.

So no I don't feel bad at all we've made do with less than others sometimes but will be feeling pretty smug when we're paying cash for our two weeks in Disney with our kids because we've knuckled down and made sensible choices instead of swanning of constantly like our friends do.

I grew up quite poor but comfortable. I didn't starve but never had new clothes or went on nice holidays. I didn't have as much as 75% of my peers, but we weren't destitute.

I knew I didn't want to live the way my family did. I moved away and now have an ok job and we own our house.

I don't particularly like my job. There is another profession that I feel strongly called towards, but would halve my salary and we would struggle to pay the mortgage.

I want holidays, to own my home, and not not be scraping the penny jar at the end of the month. It's at the cost of a booking but fairly decent paid job.

I'd like a job I love and to be able to earn what I currently do, but that doesn't seem possible. I'm grateful for what I have, and having been much poorer a decade ago I don't want to go back to that.

I think I've been fairly lucky.

Only on these threads does the phrase 'I work hard' get interpreted as 'I think other people don't work hard'.

As it happens, I have a relatively easy job which I was lucky enough to get through knowing the right people. But DP comes from a wc background and worked his way up in a difficult, often boring job.

He deserves every bloody penny he earns, the same as most workers do. I'm aware we have a comfortable lifestyle and I'm grateful for it, but I don't feel guilty.

I don't expect anyone to feel guilty for being well off.

I don't feel resentful towards those who are well off either. I am genuinely pleased for those who are happy and comfortable.

But it didn't take long for the 'hard work' cliche to be trotted out and I DO resent that.

Lots of people work hard. In fact the poorer you are the harder you have to work at everything.

If we take it globally I doubt anyone on here works harder than Brazilian garbage dump scavengers or South African sex workers.

And I doubt many put in a more gruelling shift than someone doing dementia care for less than NMW.

I have also noticed that very few people just 'work' anymore. They are all 'slogging their guts out' or 'working their fingers to the bone' if you are to believe facebook and MN.

It always makes me want to ask exactly what people do for a living. They all sound like they work down an 18th century pit.

This is an interesting thread.

When I start my new job our household income will be just over £16,000 a year. To me, that is wealthy and I do feel guilty that I'm able to work and bring home money when many others can't and rely on benefits and live in fear of sanctions. That's why we donate to food banks whenever we can. We can't do much, but we can do that.

I grew up on benefits so I think in a way I feel guilty because I know what it's like to be there and to be totally helpless to change it and at the mercy of the welfare system (parents are disabled & carer so both unable to work).

Re the children growing up in a bit of a bubble thing. I remember visiting relatives we hadn't seen for a while, when DC4 was 4 or so. They lived in the middle of a row of 8 or so terraced cottages and DC said "Wow, uncle so and so has a big house!" Because he'd never been in a terraced house before and had no real concept of a house that wasn't detached, he thought it was all one house.

I remember DH and me exchanging worried looks thinking "Fuck, we need to educate this kid a bit".

I'm an average earner but am reasonably financially comfortable which has allowed me to do some very nice things. I have never felt guilty in the UK.. I have had average opportunities compared to most people so don't feel guilty (perhaps I would if I'd had more privilege).

But then I visited some developing countries with poverty beyond anything I've seen in the UK and I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel guilty. Just by being born in the UK I have had more opportunities than a lot of people ever will and chances are even if I fall on hard times I won't know the poverty that others will, one example being a baby sleeping on the street.

I'm nothing special. I was lucky to be born where I was. And I detest people linking hard work to wealth...lots of people work hard and are still dirt poor. So much is based on opportunity. I think I saw a quote on here recently about if wealth was linked to hard work the women in Africa walking miles to carry water would be the richest in the world. It's much easier to work hard at a career if you have the means to an education in the first place.

That's not to say people shouldn't enjoy their wealth, I certainly still enjoy my luxuries..but always appreciate them and be grateful. But don't fool yourself into thinking you deserve it more either. That ll be true for some people, but not the majority.

In many, many jobs working harder doesn't necessarily make much difference. If there are very limited promotion opportunities for example, or no overtime or commission or bonuses.

The friend I know who does the most unpaid overtime in her job is a nurse to very seriously ill children. She does hours and hours extra every week.

My dh works for himself, has his own business. Yes of course he does loads of unpaid hours, but that's his choice. He doesn't work harder than anyone else. His mum had two jobs as school caretaker and vegetable picker - she worked harder than he ever has.

So I completely agree with you MrsDV, in other words .

MrsDV I totally agree. I think it's a fallacy to say that working hard leads to wealth, or that wealth is always the result of hard work.

I can't think of many people who work harder than those in social care, nursing, emergency services and so on. Even supermarket workers are rushed off their feet for long shifts and get very little recognition for it. Their wages do not reflect the amount of hard work they do.

I expect to work much harder in my new job in the emergency services than the job I had a couple of years ago as a PA, and yet the salaries were almost the same. You can't link wealth and effort.

I get the impression that most of us who are comfortable feel that we simply have what we deserve, whilst recognising that there is only so much to go around - and that others will invariably have less. We seem somehow programmed to want more than average, and to regard 'too much' as an amount that exceeds whatever it is that we have.

I think you've basically got it there OP. That's the human condition.

Pretty much everyone in this country should feel guilty because so much of what we have in our consumerist society comes as a result of exploiting other people and their natural resources. But none of us care enough to stop it. We all accept what we have as 'standard' and only judge those above us as having 'too much'.

If, as a species, we genuinely cared about other people more than ourselves the world would be completely different, but we are all fundamentally selfish, probably for evolutionary reasons.

I feel embarrassed to some extent.

My DH and I have worked bloody hard to have what we have, there will have been some luck thrown in there too I suppose.

I don't like to look flash, I still drive an average car, it's nothing special, I buy some clothes from supermarkets, although I do still own nice things like louboutin shoes and other designer bits and bobs. To meet me in the street you wouldn't know I am quite well off compared to some though.

I've been much much poorer before, when I grew up and when I was younger and have friends from all walks of life but even though I don't feel like I lord it up when outside my home I still have had snarky comments from people about the size of my house and where I live, how I eat out a lot and have (what I consider to be) nice holidays. These comments make me feel embarrassed about the balance of my bank balance because it makes me feel like I shouldn't have bought the house I have etc and feel I need to hide how comfortably I live to avoid nasty comments.

Working hard leads mostly to illness and early death, not wealth.

Maybe we should all feel guilty since it's an accident of birth to live in this lovely and fortunate country. Look at all the terrible places you could have been born.

NuffSaidSam,

I think you said that very well, squirrels stash acorns for there survival needs. They don't care about depriving other squirrels of acorns. There only goal is to survive the day, week, month etc.

Humans are no different. Just sub acorns for money

I don't feel guilty, but sometimes I feel a bit embarrassed. I also feel very lucky because when I met DH we were both on average incomes and now, because of DHs hard work, we're well off. He has also helped me invest in certain things which means I am now independently quite well off as well.

I'm aware that a lot of my friends are struggling financially and sometimes I feel a bit uneasy, because I have no problem paying for lunch or a night out, but I don't want them to feel like I'm showing off! I never discuss my financial situation with anyone, but it is kind of obvious...cars, house etc.

I do feel something when I hear of others struggling to make ends meet: supremely lucky. But I genuinely don't feel an ounce of guilt. I work in a job that (in itself) helps others, do plenty of charity work and try to be kind to everyone I meet.

I think that we each have a responsibility to do what we can to ease the suffering/difficulties of others, particularly if we are luckier than most. But to feel guilty would, I think, imply that we in some way are to blame for the system and situation into which we were born. And I don't believe that is the case (unless you're someone who's deliberately trodden on others' toes and lives to get to where you are).