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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask who is happy with the way Brexit is going?

263 replies

Bearbehind · 01/05/2017 16:15

I've started a few threads with similar titles over the months but this weekend seems to have been an outpouring of bad news so I wondered who is actually happy with how things are going

From where I'm standing

-It's looking like the government are actually as deluded as many of us feared if you believe the leaked account of this weeks meeting with the EU.
-Theresa May's election campaign is made up of staged events with staged audiences and preselected questions

there is no opposition to speak of

Who is happy with these continued sound bites in lieu of actual answers and policies?

OP posts:

LadyPW · 01/05/2017 16:23

OFFS it's not properly started yet!!!!!
The EU will 'leak' (make up and publicise) details to make TM look bad because they're terrified of us leaving on account of the amount of £ we put into the EU.
And TM's election campaign is completely separate to Brexit. And they all have staged events and preselected questions.
Give it a rest.

PreviouslyBannedToaster · 01/05/2017 16:23

I read the leaked details of the dinner between TM and Juncker like this .

In all seriousness that's probably the news story that's made me now 100% sure that we are truly up shit creek without so much as a spoon let alone a paddle.

LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt · 01/05/2017 16:24

It's going pretty much as badly as I expected. Forget 29th March 2019 as our glorious day of independence. We'll have flounced out, and off a cliff, by the end of this year, with the Maybot tirelessly repeating some new slogan - "The British People will Not Be Dictated To" or some such drivel.

Original poster

Bearbehind · 01/05/2017 16:27

Why do you say it hasn't started ladypw?

Of course it has started, there are now less than 23 months to come up with an exit strategy and everything May has tried to insist on has been point blankly refused.

OP posts:

LadyPW · 01/05/2017 16:28

I read the made-up dinner details as The EU is running scared. It's only Germany that puts more dosh in than us.

LadyPW · 01/05/2017 16:30

Talks with the EU haven't started yet. All we've done is declare ourselves done with them & had a couple of pre-negotiation chats. Once the election is over they'll start talking properly.

Original poster

Bearbehind · 01/05/2017 16:33

Of course talks have started- they started the day A50 was invoked.

Why do you think the details of the dinner were made up?

If you believe that, why hasn't the government issued their own version, countering all the claims and telling us how well it went if that's the truth of it?

OP posts:

BadKnee · 01/05/2017 16:34

A discussion of the issues - yes interesting. I'd like to know more about the money we have committed to and how much leeway there really is - especially if we are not going to benefit from the spend.

There are a few very knowledgeable posters on here who have good insight from a legal, political or financial position. I'd like to know how realistic it is to discuss only two issues - money and rights of EU citizens in the UK - without the others.

To use the oft quoted divorce parallel you wouldn't agree to give up residency of your kids without discussing money, the house, access etc. And to use the "buying a fridge" analogy - you wouldn't blindly agree to buy a fridge before you knew the dimensions, guarantee period and whether it even ran on mains electricity.
The issues to be talked through together.

Yet another "Blah blah Brexit is useless" thread adds nothing new and really is getting a bit trite now.

LuxCoDespondent · 01/05/2017 16:36

The EU appear to want to bully the UK into continuing to pay into the EU after it leaves but with fewer benefits. If the EU is weak, more countries will leave, but if they continue to bully the UK then it will make "Leavers" feel more confident that they made the right choice - because who wants to be in a club where bullying is tolerated?

Original poster

Bearbehind · 01/05/2017 16:37

badknee, there are 3 issues to be resolved first, the third being Ireland.

If you think it's so 'blah blah blah', could you contribute something to make it less so?

OP posts:

BadKnee · 01/05/2017 16:37

Exactly LadyPW. The others know they will have to increase their contributions and are worried. There will be fights over that - hence they want to nail us down to paying a huge chunk before talks begin.

LadyPW · 01/05/2017 16:38

If you think it's so 'blah blah blah', could you contribute something to make it less so?
There are plenty of other threads on the subject - why not just read them instead of starting another one & expecting people to repeat themselves?

Original poster

Bearbehind · 01/05/2017 16:39

Interesting view lux but I'm struggling to see how we are being bullyed.

The EU standing firm on issues like the location of its agencies needing to be in an EU country isn't bullying.

Not letting us have our own way for no other reason than we think we should be able to is not bullying.

Why do you think we are being bullied?

OP posts:

Original poster

Bearbehind · 01/05/2017 16:41

ladypw, I read and contribute to all the threads on this subject in the EU referendum section but I deliberately wanted to hear views of people who are less 'consumed' by it.

OP posts:

MakeUpMyRoom · 01/05/2017 16:41

Do you really think Jean-Claude "When it becomes serious, you have to lie" Junker isn't playing games.

EU is fucked without us. Especially fucked when France and the Netherlands pull out soon. His scary ideal is falling apart without the UK propping it up and he'll spin whatever he can to secure its future.

The man's a cunt of the highest order and I'm glad we've got a strong woman to deal with someone who can say, with a straight face, "We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back."

Victorious salvation!

scaryteacher · 01/05/2017 16:44

I don't think they will seriously start negotiations until after the French and German elections. This is positioning and all the HoGs have a domestic electorate to satisfy as well. We are effectively taking 20% of the EU budget away, and they want that replaced. Instead of working out how to cut their cloth, or drink beer instead of cognac, they are looking to the UK to keep propping them up.

With the money, we evidently keep paying in til 2019, or until we decide they have no desire to have a mutually beneficial outcome (next year perhaps), and the EU has to offset our share of the EU assets against our liabilities.

Original poster

Bearbehind · 01/05/2017 16:47

EU is fucked without us.

Why?

Especially fucked when France and the Netherlands pull out soon.

What evidence is there that that is going to happen? France aren't going to elect Le Pen- they are not going down the hard right route.

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BadKnee · 01/05/2017 16:49

Sorry - yes Ireland - but the first two are the ones that have been focussed on and they are the ones that the majority of the countries will be interested in.

As I said - I am interested in facts. The contributions question is worth talking about as is the money we "owe". For what? What benefit will we get if we pay all that the EU wants us to? No-one pays anything without knowing what for. I don't know.. that's the point. I'd like to know.

How much more will the others have to pay? Will a country like Poland who have done very well out of the EU perhaps find themselves in a position of paying significantly more? If France or Austria or The Netherlands has to up the money - might that influence the sway of the anti- EU parties in those countries??

We do need to talk about all the issues. TM is right to insist on that.

Original poster

Bearbehind · 01/05/2017 16:52

We do need to talk about all the issues. TM is right to insist on that.

But the other 27 countries have unanimously agreed that isn't going to happen.

What is the point in TM continuing to insist it should?

OP posts:

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2017 16:54

Speaking of tired and inaccurate tropes, here comes the 'bullying' one.

The EU has the same goal as we do but in reverse: to get the best possible deal for its economy and its citizens. It happens to have a better negotiating hand and better negotiators, and is using both those advantages in pursuit of its goal. That's not 'bullying'. Unless 'bullying' is 'using all your strategic advantages at the negotiating table and making the most of your position of strength'.

We all knew going in to the referendum that the EU would have the superior negotiating position. Calling it 'bullying' when they make the most of that for the benefit of their citizens is disingenuous at best. Those who voted leave went into this with their eyes open, I assume, and are unsurprised that the EU negotiating team is behaving exactly as you would expect professional negotiators to do.

InfiniteSheldon · 01/05/2017 16:55

Guepe · 01/05/2017 16:55

It all an absolute embarrassment. Going to be bleak for the next few generations of Brits.

Waterbeads · 01/05/2017 16:56

"The EU is running scared"

Yes they are shaking with fear not.

What a funny script. Why the heck should a powerful trading block be afraid? There will be some inconveniences, possibly some losses but gains in new areas for the EU 27. I believe Germany and France will do incredibly well as a result of Brexit in the long run as opposed to us. Busniesses are already relocating to Frankfurt and Paris. Some will relocate to countries where costs are low such as Poland. I suspect that EU some professionals who are currently residing in the UK will be actively headhunted by some firms relocating to the continent.

Brexit is self mutilation .

BadKnee · 01/05/2017 16:56

The EU negotiating team is behaving exactly as you would expect professional negotiators to do

As are we. Don't allow salami slicing of the issues.

noblegiraffe · 01/05/2017 17:01

I don't think professional negotiators would kick off timed negotiations and then say 'hang on, I'm just going to take 2 months out for some unnecessary elections'.

How is the sudden GE anything but a totally stupid idea in terms of Brexit negotiations?

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