to think my 5 year old is ahead academically?

[hollyvsivy]

I'm not posting to boast and my daughters happiness is far more important to me than her academic progress. This is why I found it frustrating that at parents evening tonight her teacher told me she's working at around the same level as most children her age, because my DD is thoroughly bored at school. She has just turned 5 and is in reception.

She's on stage 5 reading books at school but can read stage 6 at home. Her real strength is in maths, though. She can read up to six figure numbers. She can add numbers in their thousands. She understands and can do short multiplication (discovered when she joined in with her big sisters homework.) She knows some times tables and can easily halve and double numbers in her head. She will often sit and write numbers correctly formed and in the correct order to 200+. Then she brings home homework which questions like 4-2 so I just don't understand how her teacher can say she's average when she could've done the current homework years ago.

Of course I don't want to be pushy at 5, but equally I don't want her to be bored and lose enthusiasm for numbers in particular. AIBU to think her teacher is selling her short? I've seem her workbooks at school and know she's independently writing big sums at school so her teacher has definitely seen she can do it and that I'm not a fantasist!

'And'

Admitting to being a teacher and not proof reading your posts on mumsnet is an open invitation to a good kicking

Kateonfon you are so right, I think the 'all children with ASC are fab at maths/computing' was trotted out at the beginning of this thread.

The focus on social skills is because in terms of life success social, emotional and executive function skills are much more important than IQ in term of career success, happiness, good mental health, avoiding entering the criminal justice system, getting good grades etc.
If someone has asd likely social skills will need to be taught as they won't pick them up through everyday interactions like other children do - and they will likely always struggle to an extent. That's not to say that life won't be a lot easier for them if they learn what they can.

The focus on social skills is because in terms of life success social, emotional and executive function skills are much more important than IQ in term of career success, happiness, good mental health, avoiding entering the criminal justice system, getting good grades etc.

Well , that's just setting ASD children up to fail isn't it? My social skills will never be my most winning characteristic but it would be nice to also be recognise for my academic abilities. Perhaps this is why apsies can find the NT world to be somewhat shallow and confusing - or focussed towards bullshitters.

I do not think your child is ahead academically; as other posters have said there is a whole range of skills and disciplines in the classroom and academia: Have you come across the term savant; where a person has an extraordinary skill even though they may struggle in other areas: Some people with autism have these amazing skills:

Errr... if someone is a 'savant' they ARE ahead academically, on that subject.
Being ahead doesn't mean being ahead in one subject.

Why on earth would you not acknowledge the abilities of a child like this???

Has anyone gone on about deaf people developing extra senses to compensate yet? I woildn't be surprised........

I have not read the whole thread but wanted to share that DS is autistic and I know exactly what you are talking about. He is 4 and here in the US in PreK3. He is reading basic books, in his elder sisters class for a supplemental maths (kindergarten) we signed them up for and asked for chess class too. He is in with 7-8 year olds for chess and beating them.

We have him in a specialist ABA class and his teacher has 5 boys all of whom are high functioning. She has her hands very full. His curriculum is adapted so there is a lot of focus on communication and social skills. They also do a lot of exercise because, bless him, he isn't the most coordinated child.

If we were in the UK I would be working my tail off to put him in a private school that could focus on his whole development. I did read that one of the adaptations are ear defenders in assembly?!? That is not a solution nor is it an acceptable adaptation. Sounds like she has a sensory problem. Where is the OT for the sensory?

We have been told DD is academically able. She tells me she is bored at school all the time. She finds the play based learning very very boring. She has an aide because her behaviour is awful. The aide takes her into 1st grade lessons sometimes and the teachers are shocked that she does so well. The aide has told me to push for DD to have academic enrichment during the day so she doesn't find the day so boring.

Errr... of course I acknowledge the abilities; the original question was; is my 5year old ahead academically: I was answering the question as a whole; I do not think that being a genius in one area makes a child ahead academically per se: A savant can have a low IQ, a learning disabilty, a brain injury, it means they have a particular genius about a subject: The question was not is my 5 year old ahead academically in maths.

I did read that one of the adaptations are ear defenders in assembly?!? That is not a solution nor is it an acceptable adaptation
Genuine question as it's baffled me (autistic myself not a teacher so might be missing something very obvious!) - why is that not an acceptable adaption in school, it's what many autistic people do, I wear noise cancelling headphones rather then defenders though

Bubble It isn't suitable solution because, knowing my child, the issue is that the other children in assembly are too close. Why not seat the child further back from the noise on the edge so they have more space? Most importantly though is that when a child needs ear defenders there most probably is a sensory issue and it needs to be addressed.

There is a lot that can done for sensory issues when a child is younger, I don't know about older. DS has a good OT who has used deep compression massage and a spinner to help DS. The next step is to work on improving DS's behaviour in larger settings. For an hour a day he goes into a class of 15. For the district play DS had a weighted vest on which helped him a lot and slowly the weights were taken off with the whole vest coming off eventually. These are adaptations that help prepare the child for RL as an adult.

I do not know what help is out there for adults but my son has hyposensitivity which I am told by his OT is extremely common in autistic children. I would expect it is extremely common in autistic adults too! The focus on research all seems to be on catching autism early and treating it in the early years. It is a shame because I think there are a sizable chunk of girls who are identified in their teens or as adults.

I disagree Jessica I think a complete focus on academic success is setting kids with HF ASD up to fail. What's the point of being qualified to the hilt if you can't interview for a job for eg. Social skills don't have to be your strength but you need enough to get by if you want to be successful. And ime if a child has a high IQ they are capable of learning a lot that will help them socially.
Some people are awful at maths. I don't think the answer is to ignore maths and completely focus on areas of strength. You may not end up being a maths professor but if you can learn enough to calculate change and manage your finances it's very useful. Social skills are the same.

"Autistic children are always exceptionally intelligent*"
*
Really though?

My DD2 was the same OP. She recently got a first from The University of Manchester. She was put in a special group in school for some lessons, Maths and English, but mostly liked her class and liked to socialise with them. Things do change a bit in Secondary, but they never lose the edge.

Her autistic brother (though I suspect she is on the spectrum too), is not intelligent as her, but his social and emotional development is much slower, though he is catching up.

Autistic children have varying degrees of intelligence like neurotypicals.

Agree with supermum in relation to the ear defenders-these are just masking the problem not addressing it. Good OT and a sensory diet followed by home and school may be able to help reduce the need for ear defenders.
Sadly the U.K. is massively behind the US in terms of sensory processing difficulties and early intervention stratergies.

Yanbu. I'm a R teacher and would be blown away by a child in my class being able to do these things.

Yanbu. My DS is just catching up at 5, but i can see why your annoyed. They aren't educating or even knowing your child at all if they have her working way under her level and they haven't noticed.

little Tell me about it. It is criminal what they are doing in the UK to children with ASD. We would move back but after the treatment was given by the LEA I will stay here thank you very much.

Such a shame because what I see with these DC with high functioning ASD is intelligence at the very upper end of the spectrum. If that can be harnessed goodness knows what these DC can do as adults. There is a little boy in DS's class who talks about music in eighths and colours. It is fascinating how he processes music in a very mathematical way. Certain music annoys him, such as jazz, because it doesn't follow a 'pattern' that he likes. The boy is 3 and can play the piano extremely well. In the UK they would probably never discover this little boys talents because the system just doesn't support these exceptional DC.

I have Asperger's, and wasn't diagnosed until I was 40. Every person with autism is different, but we all have a hard time with social skills and relating to others.
Social skills groups can help, but it can be hard to apply lessons in real life. Not every child needs to do extracurricular activities. Stick to one or two essentials, such as swimming or ballet.
Strict age segregation in schools doesn't work well. There are children who who are more intellegent across the board, and can be moved up to their benefit. There are also youth who cannot benefit from the usual secondary school curriculum, due to poor literacy and number act skills. They need intensive work on these for a year or two before embarking upon standard secondary work.
Not everyone wants or should be an extrovert.
Modern educational practices emphasize group work and feeling good over actual accomplishment.

think life has moved on from Rain Man

Younchild sounds advanced. Mine is in reception and can do reading level 4 (at a push) and does 2 x table and a few big numbers.
She is considered around average.

I don't think 2 times table in reception is average. I contributed to a 'interview task' thread a couple of years ago when I was told I was crazy for suggesting introducing simple multiplication in the last term of year 1. Your DC may not get 'exceeding' but there is a massive range in 'expected' from below average to well above.

Being advanced in one particular area of Maths doesn't mean that she is advanced in all areas of Maths though. That's like saying that a 5yo who can recite a scene from Hamlet word for word must be exceeding in all areas of English. If there are some gaps in more basic skills it would be unwise for the teacher to keep giving harder and harder work.
The majority of 5 year olds without older siblings would never have come across the calculations the op describes. I imagine most could be taught how to do them if parents were so inclined but there are more important things to teach a 5 yo imo.