to think my 5 year old is ahead academically?

[hollyvsivy]

I'm not posting to boast and my daughters happiness is far more important to me than her academic progress. This is why I found it frustrating that at parents evening tonight her teacher told me she's working at around the same level as most children her age, because my DD is thoroughly bored at school. She has just turned 5 and is in reception.

She's on stage 5 reading books at school but can read stage 6 at home. Her real strength is in maths, though. She can read up to six figure numbers. She can add numbers in their thousands. She understands and can do short multiplication (discovered when she joined in with her big sisters homework.) She knows some times tables and can easily halve and double numbers in her head. She will often sit and write numbers correctly formed and in the correct order to 200+. Then she brings home homework which questions like 4-2 so I just don't understand how her teacher can say she's average when she could've done the current homework years ago.

Of course I don't want to be pushy at 5, but equally I don't want her to be bored and lose enthusiasm for numbers in particular. AIBU to think her teacher is selling her short? I've seem her workbooks at school and know she's independently writing big sums at school so her teacher has definitely seen she can do it and that I'm not a fantasist!

I haven't read àll the replies but I thought I'd add my five year olds ability. He has just turned 5 and is on stage 10 reading books, same stage maths as your daughter. He had exceeded "the targets" for reception in January. He is now working beyond the syllabus but my teacher works hard to give him stimulating words and spellings etc. Our school has loads of online resources such as Phonic Bug which might provide extra stimulation?
Plus library books?

I too would be worried about boredom. Is she happy playing but bored with work? Or just bored generally?

My DS had a similar profile. In my experience school is hard for most of these children. My DS also excelled at drama. He joined a drama group and did exams, performances, auditions. The way he explained it was 'it's socialising with the script' so for large parts of the lesson he knew what was going to happen, which left him less anxious, and therefore able to relax enough to socialise. An unexpected turn of events was when he won an award for improvisation - he felt so comfortable with the group that he could dispense with the script and allow his lovely, quick witted personality to come through. I would consider something like this for your DD, maybe in a year or so.

Another thought with the maths, could your DD go to a computing class, or Kumon, anything that will give her increased self esteem and keep her love of maths intact?
Good luck with the school years OP

DS will say he's bored, school is boring if he's not doing exactly what he wants to do. So if your DD just wants to sit down and write sums all day then she is going to say she is bored when she has to do FreePlay, writing, maths games, running around etc.

DS hated infants, he couldn't cope with the free play aspect of it and much prefers the structure and routine of juniors.

He is very very smart (started school with an assessed reading age of 14, brilliant at maths etc) but in infants we wanted to concentrate on the other things he wasn't so good at - social skills, handwriting, fine motor skills, toilet training, etc as these things are just as important if not more so than just advancing the knowledge that he had (which he soaked up like a sponge anyway)

I have to say the school have been brilliant with him and over the years they have done the following, some of which you may find useful and can be applied to your DD

Touch typing lessons so he can type up work instead of writing
Social skills club, he told me the other day he finds it useful to understand what people expect of him in certain situations and has helped him read people better
Reading extension acitivties - he could read his own book and then complete an activity e.g. Book report, draw a character etc so he didn't have to read those bloody biff and chip books everyone else was!
His year 1 teacher devised a special spelling challenge game for him as he could spell pretty much anything so normal spellings were a waste of time
In reception he had a visual timetable on the wall so he knew what to expect when which helped keep him calm
He had 1-1 time with a TA to do fine motor skills with him - cutting with scissors etc
He was Ina group with year 2 children for maths and English. They put them in small groups so there are often mixed age groups. He should ideally have been in with juniors but socially the school didn't feel it would work in his interests.

I don't think level 6 in reading is unusual, my daughter was past that by a good way at 3 on the other hand her brother was probably 7 or 8 before he got there, I don't think you should get to het up about it. Just make sure she has lots to read. Have you asked them to move her up? I was shameless about going in and asking for more advanced books if one of my kids needed them, in fact this meant I HE my youngest 2 and sent them at 8/9 when work seems to be more differentiated.

I think maths can be different, I found out my daughter was being called a nuisance because she did maths sheets too quickly. I thought that was sad and an awful way to treat a child. The answer was pretty simple, they gave her harder worksheets.

Don't be afraid to advocate for her, no one knows her as well as you and her dad do.

Ds also has ASD and was very similar at 5.He read at two years old and was obsessed by numbers and letters so the basic skills were very easy for him.
He was always unbeatable at mental arithmetic because one of his favourite games he played with his brother was beat the calculator so we'd shout out a sum and he'd answer before his brother managed to type it into the calculator.
Maths became much more difficult when concepts became more complicated and when questions were coached in a narrative he found it difficult to pick out the sum. So whilst he could easily compute 27 x 0.5 x 3 he found a puzzle such as "if two men could pick 27 apples in 5 minutes. How many whole apples could three men pick in five minutes?" much more difficult because of the language involved.
He still got a grade A at GCSE but it took a lot of individual teaching and 1 to 1 support because he didn't learn like the rest of the class because he struggled to understand the language involved so learned more from being shown repeated examples and figuring out the concepts that way.
With hindsight I'd say don't be too eager to push the academics, get school to concentrate on the social and emotional aspects of school because IME they are vital to success and the academics are the easy bit and are even easier if the social and emotional aspects are secure first.
Have you asked about an EHCP to get additional support?It's not so easy to secure when the academics are there to be fair. Ds got a statement because his behaviour was challenging but dd got hers even though she is in the top 10% at her secondary school and has no behavioural needs probably because I knew the system and was prepared to fight.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider - I did find your comment upsetting - my DS has autism and severe learning disabilities. Yes, autism is a spectrum, but I believe approx two thirds of people with autism will also have a learning disability. I accept you have apologised, but please take the opportunity to learn a little more about this area.

OP, your DD sounds like she is very able in certain areas, particularly maths. However I would be concerned that as she grows older, and the social skills needed are ever more complex, she may "retreat" more into her comfort zone of numbers. Does she have an EHCP? I would hope the school would support her and provide appropriate work for her areas of strength, which will engage her and boost her self esteem, but they should also be supporting her to develop her social skills, play skills, etc.

A lot of primary school teachers, ime, don't like children who are very bright. They're harder to teach and just create more work when all the teacher wants to do is have everyone following the same syllabus and reaching government-defined targets. So it's easier to pretend that your child is just average rather than have the effort of finding things to stretch her.

I have a friend whose daughter was truly exceptional, and she experienced exactly this. Had to take her out and put her in private school in the end - which obviously isn't an option for everyone.

Autistic children are always exceptionally intelligent

nonsense

My dd at 5 was like catkind's dd sounds in her pp. She has always been very fluent with maths, and in year 1 could add up 4 figure numbers in her head in seconds . We had different problems, in that she was ahead overall, including emotional maturity. The emotional maturity has been a far bigger problem for her than the academic skills tbh. Boredom is one thing, but not having friends to talk to in school made her bleakly unhappy. Primary was pretty dismal for her, she never fitted in, and just coasted along. (She isn't on the autistic spectrum). In the end she went up to high school a year early, at 10. It was the best solution because she was so unhappy and losing interest in learning. She is far happier in secondary than she ever was in primary. She is still out of kilter with other children, but as everyone else grows up she's finding more people with whom she has some common ground.
On the academic side, when a child is exceptional in one area, it is easier for the school to handle. They are better off going into a subject in more depth though, rather than just having more difficult work. Other posters have suggested some useful websites such as nrich, that might help your dd. My dd doesn't really enjoy working alone so they weren't something she enjoyed. She far prefers the social aspect of school and interaction with teachers, but some children are really happy exploring a subject more at home online, and that might be something that would really work for your dd. I think KeemaNaan's post above is really helpful. Being academically stretched and engaged is important, but other skills like dealing with friendships, are important too, with all children, not just those on the AS, as they are key to happiness later on. You can give your child extra maths depth at home if necessary. So asking the school to think of the things that Keema suggested might be the most helpful thing for your dd now. Perhaps looking at the things she finds difficult and improving those, will stand her in more stead than simply moving further in maths, which is something fairly easy to do at home or in school.

OP have you been to parents evening and been told she is " average"

I spent school life excelling but my social skills were crap, I'd rather be reading than playing. All my sibling have ASD issues, so it's no surprise.

My parents weren't arsed what I was doing really. Although I was very clumsy too and had some crazy head bumps which meant I got sent home early a few times.

Another child I know his parents were on the ball, he got moved up a year.

I don't know if it was any benefit. But it gave them great bragging rights.

op is the intensive focus on maths because she feels 'safe' when she's engrossed in that activity? Perhaps you could ask the teacher to timetable some specific times during the school day for her to do her maths.

I agree with Barbarian that she is coping even if not happy, and that is good.

One of my dc was sometimes mistaken for autistic but in fact suffered from trauma - in the past it has presented in a similar way. The difference (according to my basic understanding) is that the therapy is different and there are significant changes made with trauma therapy, so it is quite different, and we have seen huge changes over the last year.

Communicating with the school was and is the biggest thing, finding ways to make sure they were broadly on board at any given time and working with them to make sure they were happy too.

So this may not be relevant to you, but what i did was work out what we wanted to achieve in any time frame, and then explain to the teacher what needed to be done (along with a senco in the early days). Would this be helpful do you think? For you to decide what you want to happen at school, exactly, and then find ways to persuade the school?

What you have described is not average, clearly, and so it is confusing - when this was said to you did you comment that it may have been ok from their point of view but is wasn't average?

Sorry, long post. TLDR version would be - decide what you want for dc and then work out how to work with the teacher to get it.

@hollyvsivy perhaps check out an online maths tuition provider. The idea is to have children working to their ability. So for more advanced students they'll be getting learning objectives that challenge them and for those students that need extra help they'll also be working at their appropriate level.

The tutor also weights the LO's towards their weaker topics to bring them up to the level of their stronger topics.

So to reiterate, they are not just for students that need additional help they are also great for more able students to keep them motivated.

There are variants of the concept such as Doodle Maths, Maths-Whizz, Mathletics...

(MN: delete this if this is against the rules)

I work in education and currently have a brilliant child in my class who sounds like your DD. Yes this child can do amazing maths, but cannot share, take turns or understand that the basics need to be secure before the advanced stuff. We shored up basic number recognition (which included writing the numbers the right way round!!) and push sideways rather than offering maths several years ahead. Does that make sense? Try to think how you can make the simpler stuff more challenging - ok she can add, but can she do it with coins? Adding up shopping lists as you go round a supermarket? Working out change? All these help before you aim for the long division and so on.

Her teacher will know her ability, children with talents soon come to attention. Assessments will give her teacher a sense of where she is, and a plan made accordingly. But as her parent, be wary of pushing too far, let her maturity come and then she can handle being moved on. She needs to develop socially too, it's not just about capability.

I have taught some ASD children who sound similar to your DD. They found certain aspects of maths extremely easy. Like your daughter they were highly skilled when it came to mental arithmetic. However, they found using and applying maths much more difficult and in general it is high ability in this area of maths that is considered as being gifted. I do find it surprising that the school haven't noticed how able she is even if it is only in some areas.

thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-27/edition-10/autism-myth-and-reality

I wonder if anyone with experience of Autism, either personally or regarding another family member, could give this article a quick once over, to tell me their opinion?

As it deals with Autism myths, and seems mostly quite a balanced view, I was going to recommend it...but for those more knowledgeable, it may not be as accurate or fair, and I'm always eager to learn more directly from them...

Thanks.

Oops, sorry, OP,

Forgot to add that I hope you manage to work out a solution which best suits your DD.
Plenty of wise advice on here, it would seem

my 5 yr old says he is bored. but when he arrives at school he goes running in like a wild thing - they often say stuff like that when - in the actual classroom they enjoy themselves.

Reception is about playing, building social skills and using your imagination - does she find all of those things boring?

My DS was similarly bored by school maths at various stages in EYFS/KS1. One teacher even almost managed to put him off altogether - at that point I did have a word with the school, I admit.

IIWY, OP, I would focus on the social stuff with the school (where it sounds like they are doing a less than adequate job) and find ways to keep her love of maths (or is it, as others have said, maybe just a love of numbers?) alive at home. We had some good 5/10/15 minute challenge books (came with a timer - I can't find the exact ones on Amazon) which DS used to love do for fun. That could also be a gentle way to also see how she does on the applied aspects of maths - shape, language concepts, more abstract ideas.