to think my 5 year old is ahead academically?

[hollyvsivy]

I'm not posting to boast and my daughters happiness is far more important to me than her academic progress. This is why I found it frustrating that at parents evening tonight her teacher told me she's working at around the same level as most children her age, because my DD is thoroughly bored at school. She has just turned 5 and is in reception.

She's on stage 5 reading books at school but can read stage 6 at home. Her real strength is in maths, though. She can read up to six figure numbers. She can add numbers in their thousands. She understands and can do short multiplication (discovered when she joined in with her big sisters homework.) She knows some times tables and can easily halve and double numbers in her head. She will often sit and write numbers correctly formed and in the correct order to 200+. Then she brings home homework which questions like 4-2 so I just don't understand how her teacher can say she's average when she could've done the current homework years ago.

Of course I don't want to be pushy at 5, but equally I don't want her to be bored and lose enthusiasm for numbers in particular. AIBU to think her teacher is selling her short? I've seem her workbooks at school and know she's independently writing big sums at school so her teacher has definitely seen she can do it and that I'm not a fantasist!

Some children do not like the play based aspect of reception and much prefer it once the more academic stuff starts later in the school.

I'm sure that's true, but for children who are academically advanced, surely there is much greater potential for boredom in year 1, when the learning isn't quite so self directed as it is in reception?

Just a thought but the maths that you say she can do is all stuff that can be remembered. The sum of two numbers, how they multiply, times tables etc.
This is only a very small part of maths, how does she cope with word problems? Can she infer numbers from a situation?

"Just a thought but the maths that you say she can do is all stuff that can be remembered. The sum of two numbers, how they multiply, times tables etc.
This is only a very small part of maths, how does she cope with word problems? Can she infer numbers from a situation?"

She's5!

I think it's very much more important that she is socialised. In order to get on in school she needs to have friends.
My DS has Aspergers and ADHD and we started a martial art called Kuk Sool Won. He can follow routines, he's calmer, better concentration, confidence and he working with peers and making friends who judge him on his martial arts skills not his ASD!
Even if she becomes the next Carol Vorderman, if she can't socialise then she's stuffed!!!
Best of luck !

Please please don't be put off by the 'yes, but can she...' people. That was hugely damaging for my dd right through primary school. She's a gifted mathematician but primary didn't do anywhere near enough to support that an encourage her. Instead they would point out how tearful she would get about things.
In Secondary, week 2, the tears stopped. It was all to do with her environment and the lack of stimulation.

If I had my time again, we would have had her assessed, I may well have taken her out of that school and found a different environment for her. I regret allowing her to be so unhappy, even though we had many meetings with school.

if she can't socialise then she's stuffed

No not necessarily if she is happy and can be productive without. There are jobs that don't require advanced social skills. We are all better off working on our strengths in one way rather than getting massively hung up over stuff we struggle with. She has autism so is likely to always struggle socially.

OP I think with all of these things you need to talk to the teacher. Getting advice online from randoms is unlikely to be that helpful. I am always a bit at the use of the word academic in relation to a 5yo though. FWIW though her number work sounds similar to DD2 who I have been told is ahead.

OP sounds like your DD is good with maths and given she is autistic its worth specifically discussing her needs given that she does not enjoy all of the social and play aspects of school yet you would like a thorough plan to try, as far as possible, to develop both her educational and social skills.

Its a myth that all autistic children are very bright. Autism is on a spectrum Awwlook. Only those at the high functioning end will show exceptional abilities.

Wrt activities, how is she with being surprised? I ask as my DS (just 6) is also autistic & often I find that he copes better with things if he doesn't know about them in advance. If he knows too far in advance, he will spend lots of time fretting about them & asking the same question over & over again. Whereas if we just turn up to the activity/party/whatever & say here you go, now you can play basketball for a while (for example) he will happily join in, if only after a few minutes observing. I accept that this may not work for every child on the spectrum, though.

You are right to have concerns, my DS was the same in Reception, very advanced academically but really struggled socially, we moved to another country, he learnt the language within months and has has to be moved up to the next class as he is ahead but he does have some friends now.
As your DD gets older she will find it easier to have friends but if the current school can't challenge her then find a better school.

She is clearly very able especially at maths. When I was a parent helper in year R the able kids were the ones who could accurately count out 10 blocks and do very basic number bonds to 10.

Going back to your original post - yes it sounds like the teacher is not on the ball if she's describing her as in line with everyone else. They should be making an effort to cater for the very bright.

Ignoring the autism aspect for a moment. Some children do not like the play based aspect of reception and much prefer it once the more academic stuff starts later in the school.

Yep. That was me. I kept asking when we would really be doing lessons.

Meanwhile, as a teacher of adults, I'm rather tired of the whole 'education is a human right for all children' rhetoric when what is really meant is that 'we'll work with the slow ones and even go so far as to dumb down general expectations for them' when bright kids and those who are not the squeaky gates in other ways are rarely encouraged and supported.

I would be just as concerned about a child who struggled with play and one who struggled with reading or arithmetic.

OP I think your original post is asking AIBU becasue the teacher thinks my child is average when I know she is advanced? Perhaps your teacher means that she is average on the wider curriculum?

Being bored could be due to little social interaction and a limit on the time she can spend on her special interests. It is not unusual for children on the spectrum to be well advanced in some areas but they are all individual.

I work with children on the spectrum and have children who are fantastic musicians but who can not process numbers at all. I have children who can compute maths like a calculator but can not put numbers into context. Children who can spell very complicated words but cannot put them into a sentence becasue they are just words.

Perhaps you need to have a meeting with the school as to what your DD needs are? What other support does she have? You may be surprised how many teachers have little knowledge of the autism spectrum.

IME I've found that it's severely frowned upon to either mention or imply to the school that your child is very bright. It is apparently fine to discuss with the teacher that your child is struggling, but heaven forbid you suggest that your child is finding the work too easy!

My DS has no SEN and has been top of the class all the way through primary school , but our requests for more challenging work have fallen on deaf ears - in fact, we were once told by a teacher 'we can give him more homework'... er - no, he's already finishing it in a matter of seconds, why give him additional easy work?

Hopefully the fact that your child is autistic will help you in this instance, as schools seem more able to deal with that and are likely to give her at least some 1-1 time to help her. Good luck!

Autistic children are always exceptionally intelligent

What a load of unhelpful tosh.

holly I have one DC who was like your dd at that age. Dc is now 13yo. I also have one DC who is on the spectrum (in some ways like your dd, very able but with big issues with social skills)

What I can tell you is

• your dd is likely to be bored at school for a very long time. If she is really that ahead, the teachers will find it very hard to be able to differentiate work at her level. I know that, on MN, that's not how it's supposed to work and some schools seem to be better than the one way dcs went to. The fact that the teacher hasn't picked up on her abilities tells me her school doesn't seem to be one of those.

• the other side of that coin is that you then have space to concentrate on what she is struggling at school rather than what she is doing well. The social side is what is causing her difficulty (when other children just pick up on it) so this is where you (and the teacher) need to put the emphasis on.

As you are not mentioning any issue at school, I'm assuming she doesn't have any major meltdowns etc..

• happiness and wellbeing in my experience isn't always linked with always working at the right level, not being bored or being pushed to do more and more complex things. By any means, if she enjoys doing complex sums at home, don't stop her. But unlike some posters, I don't think that doing more at me and teaching her maths is the answer (for a start, she will be even more academic than her peers therefore even more bored). Helping her being more confortable with social interactions will help more because she can then concentrate on intereacting with others rather than avoiding it and loose herself in books/maths.

It's because maths at reception is just a small part of their day.

Your daughter sounds very talented, I am an early years teacher and I've only ever met one child who could do what you are describing. However, we have to go by the EYFS when assessing children, and part of the requirements for maths include talking about time, recognising shapes, knowing about weight, height and capacity etc. So despite her obvious talent with numbers it would be difficult for a teacher to assess her as exceeding without evidence of her being able to do all of those other things.

Similarly with reading, she would need to be able to recognise and understand rhyme, be able to continue a rhyming string, know how a story is structured and be able to discuss settings and characters etc before she could be assessed as exceeding.

This isn't the teacher's decision, it's their job to follow the EYFS.

Your 5 year old is far far better than maths than I've ever been in all my 52 years OP

gumbo i agree, saying that your child is ahead and bored is always always seen as a pushy parent and an annoying one at that.

My experience is that teachers have an issue with really bright kids because they don't know what to do with them and/or they are so far ahead that they would need a TA and special work. As it happens, teachers do not have any of those spare. NEither a TA (who is used for children who are behind) nor the time for preparation.

One teacher has been really honest with me on that. The next one thought the best way was to put me and my DC down instead 'oh he isn't that clever' type of comment about a child who was happy to explain some physic at CGSE/Alevel in Y4. The issue was, she couldn't follow his explainations so there was no way she could have directed him in class iyswim.

Hi OP, I've been where you are, but my child is a lot older than yours now.

DS was classed as 'twice exceptional' he was on the 96th centile overall for ability when assessed, but his autism put him on the 3rd centile for communication. Reception was useless for him, not because the teachers didn't recognise his academic ability, but because he completely lacked the imagination and social skills to access learning through play.

I took a completely different tack though and one you may like to consider. Instead of asking them to give him more and more challenging work, his IEP, then statement focussed on him having additional teaching in social skills, such as turn taking, conversation skills, eye contact, emotions, understanding situations where people were being friendly and when they weren't and a whole host of other skills that allowed him to interact with his peers.

Being able to make a friend, hold a conversation and be guided by someone else in play is what stopped the misery and boredom at school.

I think this is how you need to be thinking, as if the academic skills are there, its the ones she is missing that they need to be teaching more, not the ones that she already has.

mum there is a good pint re the new curriculum in that, if you haven't met ALL the targets in one areas, you can't move on to the next stage. Which means it will be harder for a child who is highly able to be recognised as that.

I haven't RTFT but sometimes they hold children back in reception. She might have a more receptive teacher in Y1 who can take your concerns more seriously. Some teachers do need to be told and then take this into account, some don't.

Exactly what muminthecity says.

And it isn't as straightforward as saying that she should have an EHCP. There is a process towards that and it takes time.

People with autism, as has been said, can have exceptional abilities in some areas, but struggle with others, academically as well as socially. Any school curriculum doesn't necessarily sit well with people who have a specific area of interest and don't want to focus on anything else.

I would imagine her boredom is more to do with frustration at the free play aspects of reception and not knowing what to do rather than not being academically stretched. My DS has such a spiky academic profile, his IQ can't be assessed. His visual processing is outstanding but his verbal processing is below average.

And agree also with other posters who have mentioned EYFS. It's about gaining holistic skills.

FWIW, school has really helped him gain a lot of social skills.