AIBU re Karen Matthews after watching the programme tonight>

[tiptoeingpixie]

Before I say anything, I absolutely think what she did was disgusting, abhorrent and alien to me as a mother how she could do what she did.

After watching programme tonight I've changed my mine in that no, she wasn't evil like some have claimed, she was someone with low intellect, numerous children by various fathers, the stereotype benefit mother that the press love to villi file.

Interested in what other's who saw the programme thought x

What was the drugging supposed to do?

Not sure about the rest of the children. Shannon's father blocked the release of the case review into the family so lots of the information about the other children wasn't made public. I'm not sure if there was a reason given for the drugging. I'll try and find where I read it.

On 13 November, Detective Constable Mark Cruddace and Detective Superintendent Andy Brennan gave evidence at Leeds Crown Court. A forensic toxicologist told the court that tests on Shannon's hair indicated she had been given temazepam for up to 20 months before her disappearance.[54]

From [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Shannon_Matthews here]]

So Shannon was taken of the CPR in Dec 2005 and the toxicology report of 20 months means the drugging started roughly in June of 2006. Possibly July when school holidays would have started and KM found her too much to cope with at home all day. Another article I have just read said it "would have rendered her drowsy and disorientated below the level of an inattentive schoolchild"

I wonder what the teacher thought was going on for 20 months!

20 month omfg that's long planning.

I don't Think the 20 months of drugging was prep for the kidnap. I think it was probably to keep the child as docile and easy to look after neglect as possible.

What she did, what she allowed to happen was unforgivable, however you try to explain it. What she did was evil, motivated by greed. I think the agencies designed to protect children have failed, why was KM not picked earlier by HV, or school. Surely there were concerns about Shannons' welfare, this just did not come out of the blue!

The effect of the drugs on her over that time (to make her so drowsy and disorientated) was probably why they picked her to kidnap and why they thought it would be successful. She was already used to taking the drugs, they knew how much to give her for the desired effect without killing her, they knew how she responded to them.

why was KM not picked earlier by HV, or school. Surely there were concerns about Shannons' welfare,

Yes she was picked up by HV, several of her children had been on the CPR, KM had been sent on parenting courses, SS were very involved with the family. The school had reported SM coming to school "dirty and neglected". SS knew that KM regularly left the DC alone overnight, that there was violence and drug and alcohol abuse in the house, and that SM regularly missed school. The serious case review concluded that the "kidnap" could not have been predicted by SS.

They failed Shannon then, Ok she is doing well now. But what about the trauma she probably has suffered of the kidnapping, and years of neglect and abuse.

I'm not sure what you're asking.

I am not asking anything. Just shocked that after all the abuse and neglect, nobody removed her, that it had to get this far.

Op if you are saying what she did wasn't right but... then you are excusing abuse /neglect of children which Karen Mathews and various fathers had done for years to those kids, what happened to Shannon was on a different level however it was a product of the abuse those kids suffered. Trying to explain it away as well she had low IQ and a million different men is minimising, Karen Mathews knew what was happening was wrong she just didnt care enough about Shannon to take responsibility for it.

I didn't see the programme but whilst she was of low intelligence and easily lead I just cannot use those things as an excuse for what they did to Shannon. That's kind of like saying 'you were horrifically used and abused by the one person who is supposed to protect you, but that's okay because she's a bit dim and easily lead so suck it up and move on' It's just an insult to Shannon and what she went through.

I do believe KM has been failed at some point (or at multiple points) through out her life to have even ended up in the situation of living in benefits with numerous kids by different fathers and many unstable relationships. But that absolutely does not mean she should continue the cycle by inflicting that same life on her kids as well.

What she and the uncle did was totally unforgivable and I do not find it surprising that she is vilified the way she is. It was inevitable.

No excuse for what she did. None.

She left her child drugged and stuffed under a bed for months. Left her a note with rules and a threat. She has never told the truth about what happened and her daughter will probably never have a normal life, I'd be amazed if she doesn't have serious issues. Then there's the other 6 kids who don't get a shiny new identity and have to live with their mothers actions. The grandparents aren't allowed access to the kids either despite maintaining that they knew nothing about it. She is a vile human being, cleverer than she has been portrayed I suspect

This^^. and why is she being media attention again? what she wants. an attention seeker. poor kids.

What next for Karen Mathews she is now out of prison. She has probably been moved to a different area hopefully without any of her dc. But she is still relatively young she can go on to have even more dc and possibly do the same thing again. I guess actually working for a living is out of the question. Have any lessons been learnt from all this. Probably not. For somebody with a low IQ she seems to be doing a lot better than most people

Those children often went without dinners because their mother could not be arsed feeding them. They lived in a chaotic dump thanks to her.

She drugged them to keep them docile and quiet so they would not interrupt her Jeremy Kyle, cans and fags habit.

Police liaison officers were surprised at the vast amounts of booze being brought into the house during the time Shannon was missing.

She was asked by police how many children she had and totally forgot one. She has seven and told them she had six.

She gave her daughter away to be tied to a loft hatch in a flat by a strange man for weeks to get money.

She abused the McCanns when she approached them for contributions to the fund for the search. The McCanns wanted to give her money but were advised by police not to at that point.

I'll keep my sympathy for the kids, thanks.

whilst i totally agere with you Dalek its not really Karen Matthews thats attention seeking she never appears on any of these programmes Julie Bushby however is in the limelight on all of them the media need to stop giving this women airtime i cant see its any ones best interests.

Just watched this programme and found it to be shallow and bland. A lot of blather from that Julie who really needs to get over it and some other talking heads. If you didn't watch it, don't bother.

It bothers me when people say 'SS failed this child or that child' they are overworked and damned if they intervene and damned if they don't.

The only one responsible for child abuse/neglect is the abuser. To blame SS or the various authorities is allowing the perpetrator to seem less culpable. If you give birth as a woman or as a bloke make a child you are responsible for that child. Not SS not the school not the government you dad and mom.

A lot of blather from that Julie who really needs to get over it and some other talking heads

That was what I thought. I sat there slack jawed watching her blither on thinking, "fucking hell woman, build a bridge and get over it!".

If there's one thing sadder than being Karen Matthews, it's surely being the woman totally and utterly obsessed with Karen Matthews!

Who the fuck takes their minor child on monthly visits to see Karen up in HMP wherever??

Does Julie bushby get money for these programmes? I can't see what she is getting out of it if not money. She must just be so desperate for the limelight.

Agree that what stood out to me was Julie Bushby.

She put so much energy into the search and organisation for Shannon. I wonder whether that energy and obsessive level of force was always there, found an outlet and still is focused on that outlet, or whether she's been left with so much guilt(?) over having been taken in by Karen having defended her so fiercely throughout and made such a fool of that she's stuck on trying to get more information to negate it. Especially that it wasn't really Karen who did it.