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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU re Karen Matthews after watching the programme tonight>

193 replies

tiptoeingpixie · 06/04/2017 23:14

Before I say anything, I absolutely think what she did was disgusting, abhorrent and alien to me as a mother how she could do what she did.

After watching programme tonight I've changed my mine in that no, she wasn't evil like some have claimed, she was someone with low intellect, numerous children by various fathers, the stereotype benefit mother that the press love to villi file.

Interested in what other's who saw the programme thought x

OP posts:
Madwomans · 07/04/2017 00:01

So you're suggesting replacing one stereotype (Evil Myra Hindley type) with another (Promiscuous, Dim-Witted Benefits Scrounger)? Progress or what. Hmm

Who 'spouts about' 'easily led, low intellect women who don't work' on Mn, anyway?

And could someone tell me how claiming benefits magically makes women magically able to 'pop out numerous kids day in day out'? They're clearly able to accelerate pregnancy and to explode like seed pods at regular intervals...

BigGrannyPants · 07/04/2017 00:12

She left her child drugged and stuffed under a bed for months. Left her a note with rules and a threat. She has never told the truth about what happened and her daughter will probably never have a normal life, I'd be amazed if she doesn't have serious issues. Then there's the other 6 kids who don't get a shiny new identity and have to live with their mothers actions. The grandparents aren't allowed access to the kids either despite maintaining that they knew nothing about it. She is a vile human being, cleverer than she has been portrayed I suspect

Megatherium · 07/04/2017 00:13

I've always been totally confused anyway about the notion that women have children in order to claim benefits. Surely the cost of housing, feeding and bringing up children normally leaves zilch out of benefits anyway?

Megatherium · 07/04/2017 00:15

I haven't seen the programme, but is it the case that Shannon was hidden under a bed all that time? I had the impression that she was only hidden there when someone came to the house.

VeryButchyRestingFace · 07/04/2017 00:18

My strong impression was that her pal really needs to move on. Confused

rosethyme · 07/04/2017 00:19

I do think there is evil but i don't think she is.

ZilphasHatpin · 07/04/2017 00:23

but is it the case that Shannon was hidden under a bed all that time?

No she was tied to the ceiling some of the time too. They really spoiled her.

NotStoppedAllDay · 07/04/2017 00:32

Shannon could have easily died

Karen didn't care

Quite similiar to Hindley and Rose West

NotStoppedAllDay · 07/04/2017 00:34

meg that's why they 'cut corners' and it becomes abusive

And it's how poverty happens. Benefit money is quite generous. But with the latest iPhone and a constant supply of fags and beer and a full on sky subscription it just leaves pennies to spend on the kids

MommaGee · 07/04/2017 00:39

So because she's a bit thick and had lots of is by different men the natural route was to abuse her child, drug her etc?

You actually think that's some sort of excuse??

Lots of mom's/ parents who aren't very bright, who don't work, who have lots of kids and lots odd dysfunctional relationships manage our without doing what she did. And lots of well-to-do parents with 2 children and a pony and degrees are abusive arseholes.

Is she evil like Myra Hindley? No i don't think she is but I don't think things options are Myra or too thick/poor/ promiscuous to be a good mom

tabbymog · 07/04/2017 00:40

I didn’t see that programme but I know the case you’re talking about.

How is there 'no such thing as evil'? I was married to a man who was arrested for a very violent crime - he glassed and killed someone in a pub brawl. After arrest he was put through the Hare Psychology Checklist, PCL-R, this process takes several months in most cases, which it did with my ex. He was scored at 36, out of a maximum score of 40. He's confined in a high security hospital, unlikely ever to be released. He knows the difference between right and wrong like most of the rest of us, but it simply doesn't matter to him. He’s highly intelligent and was successful in a demanding career. The only thing that matters to him is his own gratification.

This disordered behaviour is now thought by many behavioural scientists to be the result of 'abnormal' brain structure or chemistry, or possibly a combination of both. So, is this behaviour evil or not? Is 'evil' just semantics? But my ex is a threat to anyone who comes across his path, I was lucky in realising I was in danger although I couldn't have known why, and walked away.

He could just as well have made the judgement that he shouldn’t do something and knew that society’s rules said he shouldn’t, but he wanted to so he did. Is his capability of judging that something is wrong and doing it anyway not evil? Or are we as society locking him up for life and punishing something that is part of him and you think doing that is wrong? Where’s the evil in this? What does ‘evil’ actually mean? Is it like ‘insanity’ which isn’t a medical diagnosis, it’s a legal one that gives society a way of protecting itself against someone against who there is no other protection?

Or do you mean that there are no evil people but there are people that do evil things. So how is ‘evil’ defined, because the word and the concept aren’t going to go away?

ZilphasHatpin · 07/04/2017 00:45

How is there 'no such thing as evil'?

Well I suppose it depends what your definition of evil is. I personally don't buy into the existence of any sort of evil force at work in the minds or bodies of these people. Their actions are all human, whether caused by illness or complete disregard for the suffering of others.

ZilphasHatpin · 07/04/2017 00:48

because the word and the concept aren’t going to go away?

Lots of words and meanings created by woo practitioners are still pedalled today, that doesn't mean they have any actual meaning.

BarbarianMum · 07/04/2017 00:51

I don't think there is any particular link between IQ and "evil". I don't think her lack of intelligence can be offered up as an excuse for drugging your child and thing her up under a bed for days at a time. She displayed a total lack of kindness and empathy -frankly I've known dogs who'd have made better mothers and not because of their towering intellect either. Hmm

SuperBeagle · 07/04/2017 00:52

You can be dumb and still be a complete cunt. Which is what she was.

There are murderers who have exceptionally low IQs. They don't get away with it just because they have the intelligence of a fruit fly.

AtSea1979 · 07/04/2017 01:02

Of course she's evil. Poor Shannon is trying to get on with her life and there's her mum all over the press trying to make a quick buck and trying to justify herself. Horrible, nasty piece of work.

FeralBeryl · 07/04/2017 02:28

Fucking hell tab
Thank God your intuition warned you off

Butterymuffin · 07/04/2017 02:45

Zilphas ah, so the statement 'There's no such thing as evil' then becomes 'I don't personally buy into it'. Maybe you're wrong? Hmm

There is such a thing as evil (see, I can do it too). It is 'part of being human'. It's the worst variety of being human.

I'd agree with the point that you can be constrained by very difficult circumstances and still make decisions that then make you an awful person.

PerspicaciaTick · 07/04/2017 03:00

I think she has a void where her empathy and compassion should be. She either didn't understand Shannon was a separate human being in her own right or she didn't care. She treated her daughter as an object, a means to an end.

I don't know if that makes her evil, but it certainly made her dangerous and I do wonder if it is possible for her to truly understand the enormity of what she did and learn from it.

SuperBeagle · 07/04/2017 03:24

Perspicacia That makes her a psychopath. And while psychopaths are not necessarily evil, they are more capable of committing evil acts than the average person.

KateDaniels2 · 07/04/2017 06:35

Why are peoole so quick to make excuses for women who abuse their kids?

I actually know the family. This kidnapping was the tip of iceberg. There are several major things that documentaries always leave out.

Karen Matthews viewed her kids more as possessions than people. Tools to get what she wanted (money).

I have no sympathy for her and do think she knew whats she was doing she hust didnt care.

Just because petere sutcliffe was worse its doesnt mean karen Matthews cant be evil as well.

IamRonnieBiggs · 07/04/2017 06:46

What channel was this on - I want to see if it's on catchup. Thanks

bugattiveyron · 07/04/2017 06:57

Plenty of parents have low intelligence but they don't treat their children like that. She lives near here - either that or she has a double - I drove past her the other day. I hope her children are nowhere near her.

1t6y9o · 07/04/2017 07:01

What is the programme called so I can search for it?

GloGirl · 07/04/2017 07:05

She sent her pre-teen daughter to stay at the home of a man she did not know well, agreed he could keep her there against her will and never checked on her.

Shannon was at risk of so much.

I agree it seems her mother thought her children were possessions. Let's not forget she was also living with a paedophile at the time as well.

I don't think Karen is evil as I don't agree anyone is really.

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