Betrayed by TM.

[Itisnoteasybeingdifferent]

We are being led down the path by TM who is now propsing to simply adopt every EU regulation, statute and Law wholesale.

We are beset by EU allergies directives, EU waste directives, EU working time directives, EU this EU that EeU fisheres directives...... We were told we can be a sovereign country if we leave the EU.

We were not told we will have to adopt every EU law wholesale.. We don't have to adopt them. We can and should create laws that meet our needs not paper pushers in Brussels.

Did 800,000 move to Germany? No they didn't. And hey filled a specific shortage

I have no idea what the Spanish think of the expats who live in Spain. I also have no issue with the 'people' themselves. I have issue with the numbers.

Without the cheap East European labour a lot of food production will cease being economic in the UK

Won't somebody think of the jam? After all, it's going to be one of our biggest exports.

Skilled jobs are having their wages surpressed aswell.

There was a poster on one of the first threads after the referendum that everyone ignored as it didn't suit the narrative. Her husband earned 15 per hour as a welder (or something similAr). The Eastern European welders will work for minimum wage. He was made redundant and couldn't get another job at his old wage. Why pay 15 per hour when you can pay min wage?

I have heard GPS talking about needing interpreters for half their appointments . Do you have any idea how much money that costs?

I don't know about not training our own. I went to my friends graduation from medical school. There must have been over a thousand students graduating that day. I understand with the removal of the bursary for nursing training that that will cause issues and numbers will probably fall. Nothing wrong with making up the shortfall from aboard but what I was trying to say that the reason there is a shortfall in the first place is that immigration is putting a strain on the NHS and yes of course so is the ageing population. But there has always been an ageing pop. That isn't new. Mass immigration is new. It has only happened in the last 10 - 15 years.

The last 10-15 years has seen a massive increase in 'natural population growth', with little real increase in NHS funding. If the quantity of people using the service is the problem then limiting immigration wont help. Unless we also limit births and cull the elderly. Which I am not for a moment are suggesting we do, for clarity.

MGFM
I don't know about not training our own.
Without wishing to sound rude, educate yourself about it then.
Doctors are expensive to train so the UK has poached them from overseas for decades.
Which medical school has 1000 students in its cohort ?

But there has always been an ageing pop. That isn't new.
Again, you need to go and read and discover a bit.
The change from a population pyramid to a tower is VERY new - only in the last 30 years or so.
Mass immigration started when the UK brought in thousands of people from the West Indies and the Asian sub continent to fill the gaps after WW2

Natural growth includes children born here but to foreign mothers. That is 25% of all births.

I was born here to a foreign mother. Still a Brit

I do read and I do try to inform myself but I can't read everything about everything. I can only take on board as much info as I can and form my own opinion based on that. I don't tend to sit around reading about doctor training in the Uk.

I have two children under 2 and a full time job.

Natural growth includes children born here but to foreign mothers. That is 25% of all births.
Yup, like my kids cos I'm an immigrant.
I also pay rather a lot of tax and hardly use the NHS.

Even with the forriners, the UK's birth rate has been below replacement for 40 years.
The crisis in funding is being caused by huge numbers of old people who were not part of the picture 30 years ago.

Japan actually has a falling population and a care crisis because they will not allow immigration
so women are leaving work to lok after the elderly
and their economy has been stagnant for decades.

I didn't say you weren't British. I was replying to a post about natural growth vs immigration and I was saying that recently 25% of births have been to foreign mothers who have immigrated here. Hence it isn't isolated from immigration. They are linked

Don't be so rude I never used be word 'forriner' or however you spell it to make t sounds like I am being rude or racist

I know Japan as issues. I used to live there. But their problems run deeper than ours

And you wonder why no ones wants to enter conversations about brexit. I am trying to put my opinion /reasons across and he replies are just getting rude.

I refer to myself as a forriner, cos I am. Its not racist, just a fact.
25% of not enough births is still not enough births.
What is breaking the NHS and the social care system is the elderly not the young.
What is breaking the tax system is the cost of pensions and retired people's benefits, not the young.
Without the parents of said 25% there would not be enough people to look after the elderly Brits
without forcing their daughters to give up work and look after them

as in Japan.

Have you really convinced yourself that the 3.3 million extra people in the country are not causing any issues at all? No employment issues? No housing? No problems in schools? No issues at the GO surgery? On the roads?

British births aren't natural unless both parents are British then? Nice to know we've come back round to this again

Forriner is used on Mumsnet to infer something derogatory and is usually used when talking about someone who has voted out

For fucks sake. They of course are natural births. By since their parents immigrated to the county - there is a correlation between births numbers and immigration

MGFM I can only take on board as much info as I can and form my own opinion based on that
That's fair enough. None of us are expert in everything (or even one thing), but it helps not to present your opinion as a fact. For example, it is not a FACT that the NHS is on its knees because of immigration, despite what the Daily Mail and Daily Express might want you to believe.
Someone else has already picked you up on the '1000s of graduates' thing. I work in a university and have been to around 35 graduation ceremonies. There may be 1000 students in the hall, but they will all be graduating from different courses, which have nothing whatsoever do do with medicine. If there were 1000 students graduating from a particular course, that means there would have been a cohort intake of 1000 students every year. How do you think a lecture hall would accommodate a cohort that size? How would assignment marking be done?
Again, I don't want to be rude, but you really do need to question things a bit more before presenting them as facts.

I never said it hinted or insinuated that babies born to foreign mothers weren't British. You just imagined that one all by yourself

Foreign mothers do not foreign fathers make. So your 25% figure is either inflated or there's a suggestion of taint.

For that matter, foreign fathers do not foreign mothers make but the figure for that is lacking too.

Have you really convinced yourself that the 3.3 million extra people in the country are not causing any issues at all? No employment issues? No housing? No problems in schools? No issues at the GO surgery? On the roads?
No
But I'm absolutely and utterly certain that leaving the EU will not solve any of them.
As the bulk of the problems lie in choices made in Whitehall to do with Austerity and tax cuts.