Betrayed by TM.

[Itisnoteasybeingdifferent]

We are being led down the path by TM who is now propsing to simply adopt every EU regulation, statute and Law wholesale.

We are beset by EU allergies directives, EU waste directives, EU working time directives, EU this EU that EeU fisheres directives...... We were told we can be a sovereign country if we leave the EU.

We were not told we will have to adopt every EU law wholesale.. We don't have to adopt them. We can and should create laws that meet our needs not paper pushers in Brussels.

Exactly Megatherium

The currents laws and regulations we have either existed prior to joining the EU/are not impacted on by EU regulation or where EU regulation was brought in they have subsequently been written into UK (or devolved government) legislation.

It is simply not as not easy to "just get rid of it"- to do so legislation would need to be repealed or amended. The idea that we can do this quickly and without a great deal of thought as to what we would want to replace current legislation with is ludicrous.

I say again to OP (perhaps also Livelove and olympia) there is no betrayal here- the electorate were not promised any specific changes to legislation as part of the referendum. The vote was on staying vs leaving the EU. Nothing more, nothing less. You did not vote for a specific "type" of Brexit. There were a variety of stated aims from the various leave camps, but none should have been seen as promise because, despite their various claims, the leave campaign was never in a position to promise anything.

I think you are missing the point, we will be able to change any and all of those rules once we have left the EU. Its just not practically possible to do it all before we leave.

TM has zero choice, OP. I'm actually a bit shocked that you don't realise that. No-one even knows exactly how many EU directives etc there are. Imagine if the UK leaves but doesn't adopt them all automatically. No-one would be sure what the law was! There is not enough time - or staff - to rewrite replacement laws for it all and there would be gaps when things got forgotten. That would mean a ton of lawsuits and legal uncertainty and companies worried about whether or not to invest here etc etc. She can't possibly do anything else except incorporate the whole thing and then, later, start repealing and replacing individual laws once the government has had time to look at them and think of a replacement and draft it properly so it won't cause future problems. The government does have limited staff and time you know and they're a teeny bit busy right now with Brexit and NS trying to take advantage to collapse the Union with Scotland. Do you really think they can just knock up a replacement legal system for decades of law in their spare time?!?!

Problem is with complaining and everyone has the right to it needs to be backed up by actions

Write to your MP attend local party meetings get involved with Open Britain or Stop Brexit Now

Is anyone else completely thrilled about the potential cost of the lawyers, administrators, negotiators, etc. that will be required to unravel this mess? I mean, fuck the NHS. Let's spend our money on 'experts' instead.

Frumpet.. Ttip was first proposed in 1990 but because of intransigence and trade barriers didn't get actually started until 2013. But there have been multiple attempts and pressure long before then. Not expected to be finalised until 2020. So in effect no trade deal for 30 years, despite it being in the best interest of both trade blocs. Is a trade deal when you are trying to deal but having unformalised talks or when you agree to start real talks? I say it's irrelevant if for 30 years people like me have paid extortionate import taxes on goods from America.

Not me thank you jacks. I said I was overjoyed that TM was hoping to keep us in the free market, complete with free movement of labour and even people, with just a few provisos.

Oh dear God. This again.

TM says she wants to stay in the free trade area of the EU (me too) so it's not about replacing all the EU exports but in addition too. We will have to bite the freedom of movement bullet to some extent and pay into the trade area and maintain EU trade regulations, but we are already compliant with those, so what's the big deal.

No, Olympia, TM has made it very clear that "no deal is better than a bad deal." And the EU have made it even clearer that (surprise, surprise) we can't have our cake and eat it. So "no deal" it is (WTO regulations).

But never mind, because Brexiters are still convinced we can have uncorn cake with a cherry on top

Jesus wept.

two there's £350m a week free to spend!

Do you propose we use non-experts, twofingers?

I would also say to the Brexiteers that they did win the referendum and that means we have to leave, however much I regret that decision. It wasn't, however, a landslide victory. That means that other views do need to be taken into account, if this much talked of "uniting" of the brexiteers and the remainers is to be achieved.

I hate the idea of Brexit and believe that, ultimately, it will be bad for this country. I accept that I wasn't on the winning side, however saddened I am by the outcome, and that we will be leaving the EU. But I am strongly against a hard Brexit. Why are remainers views on the type of Brexit to be ignored? All those saying we need to "unite" and "get on with it" are ignoring that many of us are really concerned about the direction this is taking, simply dismissing any criticism as " just remoaners", well, moaning. As much as the brexiteers get irritated with being called xenophobic and ignorant, they are happy to decry others genuine concerns regarding the impact of Brexit and tell us to "shut up and get over it".

I am aghast that MPs waived through the article 50 Bill without amending it to demand parliamentary oversight. We have a parliamentary democracy, not an executive democracy. Now only the "arch brexiteers" have any role in the process. I feel MPs did this as they were running scared of being called "enemies of the people" by the right wing media.

We could start by abolishing all EU regulations where we have a law for our own....then look carefully at the rest.

Oh well, that should take a couple of days... Areyou for real?

There is a lot of very bad EU regulation about. And much of it is very harmful to the UK.

Like???

Areyou for real?

Olympia has amply proved on other threads that she doesn't have a clue about actual facts and figures (and she's admitted as much).

This is unfortunate, because unlike most other Leave voters that I've come across, she actually seems prepared to engage with different arguments. But in the end, she keeps withdrawing to the standard position of "I'm sure it will all be all right in the end, and in any case it has to be better than under the tyranny of the EU, right?"

A number of us have been trying to show her actual facts and figures, but, like all Brexiters that I've come across, she's determined to stick her fingers in her ears chanting lalalala.

Olympia, one more time: the EU on one side and TM on the other have made it abundantly clear that post-Brexit Britain WILL NOT BE A MEMBER OF THE SINGLE MARKET.

How do you feel about that?

Olympia TTIP is possibly not a good example given the already considerable opposistion to it in the UK ?

Any other examples ?

OP
As you are trying to mansplain to us silly girlies how it all works
There is a lot of very bad EU regulation about. And much of it is very harmful to the UK.
Link please ... I'll give you a head start ...
www.legislation.gov.uk/
show us which ones we should be scared of
or you can go here
eur-lex.europa.eu/homepage.html?locale=en
but it would be nice to know what we should be angry about ...

We could start by abolishing all EU regulations where we have a law for our own....then look carefully at the rest.

You really should have looked at the link I posted earlier.
According to those guidelines there shouldn't be much duplication, except perhaps historically.

If you're mad about this what will you feel like when a future Govt reapplies for EU membership?

Trump is that you? Sad!

In thought the same. Next, the OP would be talking about the bad hombres too.

Fun Fact - a lot of the EU directives are based on our very own British ones!! or they relate to global policies that >most< countries subscribe to. I personally like not having to worry about what would happen to my job if I got very sick, or had a baby. but thats just me ;)

LiveLove my experience is the total opposite to yours. I have lurked on the Referendum threads for the last 9
months. IMO the Westministenders threads which are largely pro Remain are packed full of lengthy intellectual debates and have hundreds, if not thousands, of links to articles from the popular press to obscure academic journals explaining why Brexit will be a disaster.
The Brexit Arms which is pro Leave has a handful of posters who put forward a well thought out and considered rationale for leaving the EU and I have total respect for them.
However, the vast majority of posts are along the lines of 'You lost, stop whinging' or 'It's all going to be great'. The most recent thread has posters posting pictures of the Queen and blatantly gloating at Remainers.
Any attempts at asking Leavers to discuss negative consequences of Brexit are just blatantly ignored.
Someone posted a link a while back which said that, by 2036, everything would be great. That may be true but that's not much comfort to those of us who have children in their late teens who will be nearly 40 by the time this new golden age comes.
One poster said that the only thing that matters is leaving the EU no matter what the cost and another compared EU membership to being in prison.
How am I supposed to take people like that seriously?

The Brexit Arms which is pro Leave has a handful of posters who put forward a well thought out and considered rationale for leaving the EU and I have total respect for them.

That's actually very generous. That thread is full of cliches and empty rhetoric.

Well that's a first. I'm being stalked on MN! .

Yet another thread I won't bother responding to or reading again, and taken over by Remainers ......... one of whom can't be bothered to read the OP which states TM is betraying the Leavers by keeping the status quo.

Let's face it no one knows what the real deal is and I suspect it's all a 'phoney war'. TM is wrong if she thinks it's all about immigration, though I suspect it's her agenda.

yet another thread hidden. Next time I'll change my identity .

It's very simple - there just isn't time and I am not pretending or making that up. All we can do is an Act which says n 2019 Brexit all current laws continue. Then after that we can start removing those we want to remove. People to realise how very many there are. There really is no other way to do it.

The risk is the Henry VIII clause proposed for teh Great Repeal (ie. not repeal) Bill that later the Government through statutory instruments can remove or change those laws without full parliamentary scrutiny. That is the worry with it not that it keeps in place 1000s and 1000s of regulations from data protection to working hours to the laws on safety at work on your computer screen to rules on trade marks.

Someone upthread said the "UK imports more than it exports, so we'll gain more than we lose on tariffs"
< sigh >
Tariffs are paid to the Treasury by the customer, i.e. the UK consumer, or the nhs (for imported drugs & equipment)

Yup. All the stuff that currently comes in from the 27 with no tariffs on it will cost a few percent more to the end user.
Import paperwork at £30 per shipment / package
Plus 3 hour delay while its done
Plus duty plus import VAT
For small businesses used to ordering a couple of boxes of local food from Greece say, the price change could be 25%

Someone upthread said the "UK imports more than it exports, so we'll gain more than we lose on tariffs"

After Brexit, the UK will be exporting a lot less.

If customers abroad have to pay tariffs on UK goods, then they will buy elsewhere in the EU to avoid the hassle and costs. This will decimate half our export income.

Banks in London are lobbying for a Brexit tax deal from Teresa May. In order for banks to remain in the UK, they will pay less tax in the UK in order to offset any tarriffs applied abroad. The UK exchequer will lose substantially (incl NHS).