Betrayed by TM.

[Itisnoteasybeingdifferent]

We are being led down the path by TM who is now propsing to simply adopt every EU regulation, statute and Law wholesale.

We are beset by EU allergies directives, EU waste directives, EU working time directives, EU this EU that EeU fisheres directives...... We were told we can be a sovereign country if we leave the EU.

We were not told we will have to adopt every EU law wholesale.. We don't have to adopt them. We can and should create laws that meet our needs not paper pushers in Brussels.

13 pages on, have we managed to find many examples of terrible regulation EU yet? I saw that the price for car insurance/annuity has been mentioned, but has there been anything else?

Give them time! They're busy scrolling back through the red tops but got stuck at FREDDIE STARR ATE MY HAMSTER.

I only know one Brexit voter in real life was able to cite real regulations she objected to - she believed that working time directives and workers protections were making today's youth lazy, and that she wanted us to have the "right" to slave away in dangerously long hours, for very low pay and get fired with no recourse if we complained/missed a day due to sickness/became pregnant. Genuinely. But, although I massively disagreed with her, at least she was better informed than most leavers.

Yet another thread I won't bother responding to or reading again, and taken over by Remainers

In fairness, people have been trying to engage Brexiteers in debate, but the responses have been few and far between - presumably because they don't have the answers.

To be fair to the Leavers, none of the people charged with implementing Brexit i.e. May and her three stooges, have a clue either and they have had nine months now to work on it. May still seems to think she can cherry pick agreements.

I wish everyone would stop throwing maternity leave out there as some awesome law bestowed on us by the EU. The EU law states that women should be given at least 14 weeks maternity leave. UK law gives women 52 weeks. EU law doesn't stipulate how much money women should receive for their mat leave.

And what baffles me even more is be idea that without EU laws we would be living in a cave somewhere with no rights. I am a half glass full sort of person and I truly like to believe that if the EU had never existed that we would still have clean water, clean beaches and decent laws covering mat leave. Why does everyone assume without the EU we would be some version of China/Cuba/Russia? And no PM in their right mind would start trying to dismantle al of those laws that positively affect the UK.

Rights relating to annual holiday entitlement and aspects of maternity and paternity provision are two areas where Brussels has directly influenced the UK legal framework. The Working Time Directive gave UK workers the statutory right to paid annual holiday for the first time. It specified at least 20 days of paid annual holiday, but in the UK this has risen to 28 days including bank holidays for full-time workers. The contentious aspect of that directive – limiting a worker’s working week to 48 hours – is subject to an opt-out by workers in the UK. 

Given that the UK has “gold-plated” the holiday allowance afforded to workers, it’s hard to imagine why any future negotiations would target this particular right. Similarly for maternity leave, the domestic rights already exceed the minimum required under EU law. For years, the direction of travel in the UK has been to extend family-friendly laws and it’s hard to see that repealing legislation in this area will be a priority.

I have copied and pasted someone else's words here but you get the point

Will we get our unicorn cake this month when TM announces we've started the process or must we wait till we're officially out? And will there be a chocolate version too
(And please tell me that it's only those of us who voted Brexit that get a slice)

I agree with you MGFM that the UK wouldn't be the US without the EU (not sure Cuba is the best comparison).
What the OP was claiming was, on the contrary, that the EU based laws were bad for the UK.

You also can't compare something that gives "at least" with another that goes "up to".
52 weeks maternity leave in the UK is not full pay. Other countries give longer "up to" times.

MGFM: Who is saying that all our rights have been "bestowed" upon us by the EU?
As a member of the EU, the UK contributed to EU regulations and rights. They were neither bestowed, nor imposed upon us. It is true that many of out own protections go over and above EU ones at the moment. There are forces who would like to see these slashed, however so I don't share your optimism that the UK will continue to improve upon these rights. It's wishful extrapolation that does not take into account the technological and political upheavals the world is currently experiencing.

Protecting the environment and workers rights costs money, and does, to some extent, make us less competitive compared to countries that don't have those regulations. If this wasn't the case, then there would be no need for regulations because the financial incentive to cut corners wouldn't be there.That's why it makes sense to agree minimum protections and rights within a group like the EU - I find t hard to see how the trade agreements within the EU could exist without the shared regulations.

Women are entitled to 52 weeks leave should they chose to take it. I think our provision for mat pay is one of the best in the world and it has nothing to do with the EU.

My choice of language is due to the fact that people are behaving like without the EUbwe would have had any of these regulations or laws. Of course I know that we are a member and were involved in their creation.

My reference to Cuba was simply because I was using. Examples of countries were they don't maybe have the same freedoms, provisions and protections as we do. I personally feel we would as a country have put in place many of the eu laws without the eu but we will never know if that would have been the case.

Our provision for maternity leave is very good, but I wouldn't say our provision for maternity pay is one of the best in the world:
SMP = 90% of your average weekly earnings (before tax) for the first 6 weeks
Then £139.58 or 90% of your average weekly earnings (whichever is lower) for the next 33 weeks

It's good, but I guess (like any system) it will be suit some women more than others.
EG, some women would prefer to get higher maternity pay, for a shorter period of time, especially if they are the main/sole earner.

By the way, MGFM I do agree with you that it's likely we will have many of those rights without the EU. But we have also benefited from our closest and biggest trading partners having the same mimimum standards as us, and this has made it easier to introduce working regulations in the UK without crippling our competitiveness.

Hypothetically, if there were no national regulations on maternity pay etc, some companies may still offer it their employees (and many do offer over the minimum now), but (depending on the industry) it may be hard to do if they're competitors weren't doing this.

And even with what you've said, I still don't see how we will be better off outside the EU.

The Patrick Stewart sketch is VERY funny...

I truly like to believe that if the EU had never existed that we would still have clean water, clean beaches and decent laws covering mat leave.

I think we would have had clean water, because the provisions for providing it were initially put in place by Local Authorities in the 19th Century. We certainly would not have had Clean beaches - those of you who are old enough to remember the time before the EEC, will remember that a lot of our beaches were filthy e.g. Rhyl, where the tide goes out a long way, and went out exposing the sewage outflow pipes, where raw sewage was pumped into the sea.

40 years ago enhanced workers rights might have been an option, but now? Maternity leave - Angela Leasdom was making noises about small firms getting rid of it. Workers rights under the 'gig economy'?

Apparently it's just been announced that TM will trigger Brexit next Wednesday ...

40 years ago we didn't have clean beaches. 40 years ago the environment wasn't a priority for anyone. Times have changed and I don't think I can credit the EU with a change in attitude world wide. Do you honestly think the brtish public would be ok to still have filthy beaches? Oh please.

Do you honestly think the brtish public would be ok to still have filthy beaches? Oh please.

Oh please, nothing. Substantial parts of the globe put up with filthy conditions because no one is prepared to pay, or charged with the responsibility. So yes, I do think we would have dragged our feet on getting clean beaches.

I think you are comparing us to developing countries with that post. A lot of developing countries are not in a position to do a lot of things we take for granted in the U.K.

Pretty sure Australia has clean beaches, New Zealand, Japan. I've been to Mexico a few times. Those beaches are pretty clean. I thought the beaches in the US were clean. Thailand lovely beaches. None of these countries are in the EU and they are not swimming through rubbish.

Clean beaches in the UK are certainly due to the EU directives. The UK government didn't seem too keen on the investment required to clean up beaches prior the EU directives, and only bucked their ideas up when infringement proceedings against them were started.

We can't say definitively that we wouldn't have had clean beaches, but I believe that many authorities dragged their feet in providing them.

At one time, back in the 1950s, out of necessity, we pioneered Clean Air Acts, after the 'pea souper' fogs of London. The political climate was very different then - there was a much greater acceptance of a mixed economy and an acceptance that Governments and Local Authorities had to act. We now have air pollution in London, caused by vehicle emissions. Who is rushing to clean it up?

Do you honestly think the brtish public would be ok to still have filthy beaches? Oh please.

Well, at the moment, the British public is standing by, watching the decimation of the NHS, while the government claims everything's fine, despite the Red Cross describing the situation as a 'humanitarian crises. I therefore have no problem whatsoever in believing that the apathetic British public would stand by, passively tutting a bit, while our beaches and waterways deteriorated.

We now have air pollution in London, caused by vehicle emissions. Who is rushing to clean it up?
Good point. It shouldn't even be a case of cleaning up after the event; we shouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

I am not sure the public is so apathetic towards the NHS

There is no opposition so the government can do the fuck they like and are

And last parliament they had Clegg and Co to back them up

Well I don't live in London So I am not fully aware of the pollution problems they have there. But from where I am sitting companies and the government are making improvements towards being greener etc. Although I think the gov thinks the answer is to increase taxes. Companies are trying to be more sustainable. And they pay consultants a lot of money to make sure they are. Most packaging these days is recyclable. I have always thought the uk was doing ok regarding this sort of stuff. Of course it is resisted as it costs money. Same for individuals and their homes. I haven't got solar panels on my house as I can't afford the outlay but in the long run I know it would be beneficial. People driving around in old cars that pump out loads of pollution - why don't they upgrade to new fancy hybrid? Cos it costs money. I don't think you can blame the gov andcojbcils for not being more green when the average jo isn't really either.