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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

999 replies

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:48

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

OP posts:
PurpleMinionMummy · 17/03/2017 20:56

I was enraged to begin with. How on earth can a 12 year old pass for 16? But every witness that saw her that evening thought she was over 16. The taxi driver thought she was 20. Even the police didn't show concern at her being out in the early hours as they didn't realise she was so young, so how was this man meant to know when no one else did either?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 17/03/2017 20:56

The judge described the case as wholly exceptional. He was 19 at the time and genuinely believed the girl was over the age of consent and she did lie about her age. However because she was under 13 she was deemed unable to consent. From what I have read there doesn't seem to have been any suggestion of coercion on his part so it was a case that he was mistaken about her ability to consent.

Original poster
joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:58

But- given the stats on rape, given the stats on child sexual abuse, this sends out the message that men can get away with raping children. I mean really- a 12 year old does not look like a 20 year old does she? Apart from to men who dont see past the male up and sexy clothes I assume she was wearing

OP posts:
MrsTwix · 17/03/2017 20:58

It sounds like he genuinely believed her to be 16 and consenting. He was a teenager himself at the time. The woman judge saw the cctv and agreed that she looked over 16.

Guavaf1sh · 17/03/2017 20:59

For the reasons above you shouldn't be disgusted or enraged - it was a very exceptional case

deblet · 17/03/2017 20:59

Maybe because it was not rape? Rape is nonconsensual sex and this was not that. My daughter is 12. Her friends are all into make up and boys and when they went out tonight they were showing my daughter pics on FB. They are up town right now, they are all just 13 and hand on heart if I did not know them I would assume they are a lot older. They never have problems getting into 15 movies for example and laughed when I said recently they would not get into a film. They all have boyfriends and I know at least 2 are having sex because their mums have sorted contraception. I don't like it and I am glad my daughter in immature and more into her horses or we would be having fights when I would not let her out on a Friday night. To hear them talk having a boyfriend is a must or you are sad. It has been accepted this young man did not know and until we chip everybody so we can scan them for details justice must be done in the courts. And he did not rape her.

JellyBoat · 17/03/2017 20:59

Yes YABU. He and everyone else (including the police) thought she was over 16, she said she was over 16 and she consented. He isn't a rapist. I think it's common sense. What's infuriating is the number of actual rapists who get off scot-free. Save your anger for them.

Original poster
joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:59

a 12 year old isn't able to consent to sex. It is always abuse. Always rape is penetration has taken place.

OP posts:
MrsTwix · 17/03/2017 20:59

I do think this case is rather unusual though.

WaitrosePigeon · 17/03/2017 21:00

It's clearly a very complex case:

DoublyTroubly · 17/03/2017 21:00

Have you actually read the details? The police were out specifically looking for underage children and stopped her in the early hours to ask if she had seen another 12 year old they were looking for. If the police thought she was over 16 she must have looked pretty convincing!

Papafran · 17/03/2017 21:01

He did not force her into having sex. The rape element was because a 12 year old cannot consent. However, if all witnesses genuinely (including the police) genuinely believed her to be 16, that would tend to suggest that this young man also believed it. She also lied and said she WAS 16. It was an exceptional case and I feel sorry for the young man. Had she been 16, he would have done absolutely nothing wrong.

Boulshired · 17/03/2017 21:02

A friend of my DD is really tall she does look around 18 and she is thirteen, everyone assumes she is DDs older sister. It can happen.

Musicaltheatremum · 17/03/2017 21:02

But if he truly thought she was 16 then I feel for him. Of course at 12 she cannot consent but she was out in town at night with her friends all dressed up and some 12 year olds do look old. Having looked back at photos from my daughters friends aged 12 nearly 13 I can see how some can get away with it.

Original poster
joystir59 · 17/03/2017 21:03

she was 12 years old. 12. Think about that for a moment. Children are sexualised at ever younger ages. What on earth parents are doing letting 12 and 13 years olds out to party on a Friday night with boys I do not know.

OP posts:
Writerwannabe83 · 17/03/2017 21:03

She looked older than she was and she lied about her age therefore the guy did not know he was doing anything wrong. In his mind he was having consexual sex with someone over the age of consent and that is very different to a man having sex with a girl that he knows to only be 12 years old.

I'm not sure he can be punished for something he didn't even know he was doing?

RJnomore1 · 17/03/2017 21:03

There's quite a long thread already running about this if you want to join.

Papafran · 17/03/2017 21:04

But- given the stats on rape, given the stats on child sexual abuse, this sends out the message that men can get away with raping children. I mean really- a 12 year old does not look like a 20 year old does she? Apart from to men who dont see past the male up and sexy clothes I assume she was wearing

You don't know that. You didn't see her and some of the witnesses were police officers, who presumably were not looking at her 'sexy clothes'. A 12 year old can potentially look like a 16 year old and she did tell him that she was 16. This was not a case where there was coercion and is really quite unusual. I don't think it sets a precedent for child rape.

Original poster
joystir59 · 17/03/2017 21:05

The message to men should be- if you aren't sure of the age of the girl then do not have sex with her until you ARE sure. A 12 year old is too young emotionally to be engaging in sexual activity. We need to protect children. Parents should not be letting such young children out at night to party in bars etc

OP posts:
PurpleMinionMummy · 17/03/2017 21:05

Well if there are several witnesses stating she looked 16 or over, including police officers, she obviously did.

Original poster
joystir59 · 17/03/2017 21:06

RJnomore1 could you link me to the thread or give me the title please

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 17/03/2017 21:06

The point is he didn't knowingly, intentionally or recklessly have sex with some he thought was underage. He believed she was telling the truth about her age and other witnesses backed up this being a reasonable belief.
When the police told him her actual age he burst into tears.

TheFallenMadonna · 17/03/2017 21:06

Here Some different opinions.

Papafran · 17/03/2017 21:06

What on earth parents are doing letting 12 and 13 years olds out to party on a Friday night with boys I do not know

Yes, that is the real problem. The parents sound woefully negligent. But would it be fair for a young man to be branded a sex-offender for life when he has believed a believable lie about someone's age?

PietariKontio · 17/03/2017 21:07

A 19 yr old had non-coercive sex with someone he believed, as did everyone else, was 16, but turned out to be 12.
If he'd known, or should reasonably have known, then it would have been rape. It's not.
I think the lesson for the young man, and people like him, is that you cannot know for sure, and you should be led by your brain not your genitals, as you don't want to be part of something that is, knowingly or not, abusive for the other party.