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MNHQ have commented on this thread

AIBU?

To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

999 replies

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:48

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

OP posts:

Report

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 19/03/2017 14:53

And for clarity at no point in the judges sentencing comments does it clearly say she even told him she was 16. "You understood from chatter in the taxi"

How the fuck can you tell from chatter in the taxi

God its getting worse

But noooo he is the victim!!! Fucks sake

funnylikeaclown · 19/03/2017 14:53

Not a question of being 'foisted' on, just common sense

Elendon · 19/03/2017 14:55

I mean you couldn't even make some of this up when it comes to peoples attitudes towards minors who are raped.

I feel I've fallen into a dystopian world.

SmileEachDay · 19/03/2017 14:55

funny for both men and women though, yes?

Annahibiscuits · 19/03/2017 15:01

Wow funny, it's just dawned on me, you think they are EQUALLY victims, don't you??

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/03/2017 15:05

Sentencing comments.

HMA v Daniel Cieslak - Judgments & Sentences - Judiciary of Scotland
www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/8/1754/HMA-v-Daniel-Cieslak

You understood from chat in the taxi that the victim was 16 years old and her friend was 17 years old. The taxi driver had the impression that the victim was about 20 years old.

Sallystyle · 19/03/2017 15:08

Interesting RJ that the judge said he found out in the taxi what her supposed age was. Much as I expected, he didn't really bother to spend much time finding out her age. None actually before he took her in a taxi.

Yes, poor bloke huh?

He wanted sex, he got it. He got burned because he didn't really care about the girl, he didn't care to spend time talking to her, he didn't care when he took her into a taxi.

But hey, he cried when he found out!

Anon1234567890 · 19/03/2017 15:09

I have worked in several large, urban secondary schools. I have never got a yr7 mixed up with a yr11.

But you are presumably an intelligent, educated mature person, who know the pupils reasonably well, are not tipsy when you see them in school uniform, in year groups, without makeup and not on way to adult parties. Its not comparable.

SmileEachDay · 19/03/2017 15:09

I wonder if the drivers impression was partly formed because there was a man with her. A clearly adult man of nearly 20.

^At approximately 3.30am on the Saturday morning, police arrived at the area and spoke with one of the group whose mother had reported her missing. The police were directed to the missing girl by the victim who spent some time talking to the officers.
Those police officers were looking for the missing girl and others who they thought were too young. They had no concerns about the age of the victim and did not note her details.^
So the victim knew the girl the police were looking for, she directed them to that underage girl and they didn't think to check WTAF?

SmileEachDay · 19/03/2017 15:11

Its not comparable.

No, Anon you're right. It's no where near as important for me to know because I'm not going to have sex with any of them.

Elendon · 19/03/2017 15:14

Her attitude is irrelevant and under the 2009 Act there is no defence that you had reasonable grounds to believe she was above the age of consent.

And yet the views of the police and the taxi driver were taken into account to acquit him of a jail sentence.

Clearly something is not right. There is no joined up thinking in this decision.

I did wonder why this was taken to court. It's simple. One of her friend's mother had rung the police to report her 12 year old missing. Why they thought a sixteen/twenty year old was amongst a group of 12 year old's is questionable to say the least.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/03/2017 15:20

At approximately 3.30am on the Saturday morning, police arrived at the area and spoke with one of the group whose mother had reported her missing. The police were directed to the missing girl by the victim who spent some time talking to the officers

Those police officers were looking for the missing girl and others who they thought were too young. They had no concerns about the age of the victim and did not note her details

How on earth did they come to the conclusion this girl was not under 16 when she knew and was in the company of another 12 year old?

Elendon · 19/03/2017 15:20

The entirely legitimate purpose of this statutory offence is to protect young girls from penetrative sex and premature sexual activity, not just from predatory adult males, but also to protect them from themselves – whether they like it or not.

Yes this is right and proper and I presume the police searching for the 12 year old in the company of the girl raped knew this?

CecilyP · 19/03/2017 15:23

You can't acquit someone of a jail sentence! His guilty plea was accepted, following which other evidence was taken into consideration when deciding sentence. Who knows what the police thought but there must have been something that made them feel no cause for concern.

Anon1234567890 · 19/03/2017 15:26

No one knows if he 'wanted' sex before he got in a taxi, they went to a party. And no one knows if he actually cared for the girl. I know I have cared about people who mutually agreed to have no strings attached sex. Lot of people just assuming a lot of things on here.

Elendon · 19/03/2017 15:28

Absolutely, they felt no cause for concern, whilst looking for a reported missing 12 year old. No no concern whatsoever. Nothing to see here. Move along now.

Moussemoose · 19/03/2017 15:31

How on earth did they come to the conclusion this girl was not under 16 when she knew and was in the company of another 12 year old

Because it's not that easy! I keep repeating that some of these girls, who are undoubtedly victims of society, go to great lengths to convince people they are older. They want to look older, their life experiences mean they can act older. That is why these cases are so hard to deal with. You are arguing with the victim against what they want.

If they looked and acted like 12 year olds - problem solved. The bouncer, the bar staff, the police would spot them and stop them. Nobody wants this or likes it but it genuinely hard to stop it.

Anon1234567890 · 19/03/2017 15:31

I completely agree SmileEachDay but you can't punish for not having your morality. This is purely a matter of law.

Sallystyle · 19/03/2017 15:32

No one knows if he 'wanted' sex before he got in a taxi, they went to a party. And no one knows if he actually cared for the girl. I know I have cared about people who mutually agreed to have no strings attached sex. Lot of people just assuming a lot of things on here.

Oh so he didn't have sex in mind when he picked her up?

What a silly assumption to make.

He had sex with her at the party.

What has you caring about people you have shagged got to do with anything? All his actions points to him not caring about her at all. If he did he may have realised she was a child.

Moussemoose · 19/03/2017 15:34

Wow Elendon - I hope you work in a profession where you can spread your expertise. The rest of us out there doing these jobs should just come to you for advice.

Oh but we don't really care do we?

Elendon · 19/03/2017 15:35

So too, whilst there is no defence to this offence because of strict liability, the fact is that you would have had a defence if the victim had been a few months older.

So if she had been a few months older then it would have made all the difference. Incredible.

Had he been a few months older he would not have been a teenager.

MrsDustyBusty · 19/03/2017 15:36

No one knows if he 'wanted' sex before he got in a taxi, they went to a party.

You think a 19 year old was so overtaken by the sophisticated conversation of a 12 year old that he took her to a party to continue their scintillating discussion over a sherry?

JustAnotherSilentOldNumber · 19/03/2017 15:37

Yes this is right and proper and I presume the police searching for the 12 year old in the company of the girl raped knew this?

The police were not searching for either child that this case was about.

I have no doubt that there are many details about this case that we don't know which the Judge did.

Sallystyle · 19/03/2017 15:37

I completely agree SmileEachDay but you can't punish for not having your morality. This is purely a matter of law.

No one said he should be punished for not having the same morals as others. But thanks for explaining how the law works.

He should be punished (and most certainly will be) because he raped a child.

Annahibiscuits · 19/03/2017 15:37

mousse I seriously hope you don't work in a safeguarding capacity

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