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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

999 replies

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:48

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

OP posts:

BabychamSocialist · 17/03/2017 22:05

1horatio

In my opinion the responsibility lies with the parents. Parents who are aware of what their kids are doing would not let them be in a taxi queue in a major city at 4am in the morning.

If my kids were out at that time in a morning and I didn't know where they were, I'd see that as a huge failure on my part. My boys are both 16 and even now if they say they're stopping at a friend's for the night I speak to the parents of the friend involved. If they're going to a gig, I make sure the gig is actually real, not made up. Stuff like that.

I hope both parties in this case can recover from it. I also hope that the parents are prosecuted for neglect.

DermotOLogical · 17/03/2017 22:05

I agree 1horatio.

It is reasonable to assume she was 16. This is why he wasn't sentenced.

Onthecouchagain · 17/03/2017 22:06

Some top level misandry from joystir. Well done.

Ginkypig · 17/03/2017 22:06

Yes rufus and joy your right.

I am surprised that so many people on here don't know the basics of the law too if I'm honest!

Joy imo though could have expanded her/his answer to consent under the law so as to stop the argument about wether it is or not rape.

Under the law It is rape everyone, she can verbally and physically consent as much she wants but legally she can't because she is too young so whoever she chooses to have sex with is under the law raping her.

1horatio · 17/03/2017 22:06

n my opinion the responsibility lies with the parents. Parents who are aware of what their kids are doing would not let them be in a taxi queue in a major city at 4am in the morning.

I absolutely agree.

I don't know a lot about Scottish law... (not from the UK). But I genuinely think he should sue the parents. (although I know that this is most likely not possible...)

JustAnotherSilentOldNumber · 17/03/2017 22:08

I am surprised that so many people on here don't know the basics of the law too if I'm honest!

I don't think anyone is disputing that it was rape in the eyes of the law... considering he pleaded guilty and was correctly convicted.

TheFallenMadonna · 17/03/2017 22:08

Horatio1 I said was there evidence he was unwilling. To the suggestion by WingsofDesire that he was raped. And your suggestion that he was coerced.

Oblomov17 · 17/03/2017 22:08

Thank you rabbit. That was what I was saying.

Poor her.

Poor him. He'll never live this down. His name and photo is everywhere.

No chance of good career as as barrister then!!

SoupDragon · 17/03/2017 22:09

I can only assume that the OP and all who agree with her were party to all the evidence and information that the judge had.

DermotOLogical · 17/03/2017 22:10

I understand the point of law, technically she is too young to consent.

BUT the man didn't know. In his eyes she was 16. Therefore old enough to consent.

He is a victim too.

picklemepopcorn · 17/03/2017 22:10

It's outrageous that a twelve year old was in a taxi queue at 4am. It's outrageous that she had the money to be out partying late at night. It's outrageous that society encourages/allows sexualisation of girl children so that they wear adult clothes, make up and hair styles when they are not adults.

I think it's a bit outrageous that people have sex without knowing each other.

It's not outrageous for a teenager to assume someone who everyone mistook for 20 at 4am is in fact 16.

TinfoilHattie · 17/03/2017 22:11

a 12 year old does not look like a 20 year old does she

But she didn't tell him she was 20, she told him she was 16. I have kids of this age. Some of the girls are as tall as I am, boobs, hips, could easily pass for a lot older with make up and clothing. Also he met this girl at 4am in a taxi queue - it's a fair assumption that anyone out at that time is older than 12.

I think the people who are to blame here are whichever adults had responsibility for the welfare of the 12 year old.

Sallystyle · 17/03/2017 22:12

She was under 13, so it's rape.

Have sex with a stranger you just picked up you take the risk of them being under age.

If you don't want to face the consequences of getting it wrong then wait a while until you have sex with someone. It's pretty simple.

I am sure he does feel disgusted about the fact that he slept with a child but sadly, it's something he should have thought about before. I have drummed the dangers into my teen boys about the dangers of meeting strangers for sex and that people may not always be honest about their age, so if they don't want to get into trouble they need to be very careful about who they sleep with.

1horatio · 17/03/2017 22:12

It is reasonable to assume she was 16. This is why he wasn't sentenced.
Yes.

As I said, I don't know anything about Scottish (or English law.).

However, where I studied law (civil law country, btw) intent is necessary for the act of rape.
So, the perpetrator needs to have the knowledge of the facts that make his actions rape or it is deemed that he should have known these facts/that an objective 3rd person in his shoes would have known.

But as I said before, she looked above the age of consent, acted like she was, probably had a fake ID, said she was and appared to have given consent.

I fail to see how the alleged perpetrator (imo actually also a victim!!) could have known any of that. Or can be expected to have somehow known any of this when other people apparently also thought she was much older than 12!

Original poster

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 22:15

It makes you wonder at what age she started having sex- very doubtful this was the first time. It makes me sad to think of what kind of life she is living.

OP posts:

SoupDragon · 17/03/2017 22:16

Well Star rather than fear for your son perhaps you teach him to know and respect his sexual partners. Ffs.

Perhaps parents of girls shoud teach them not to dress, act and pretend to be much older than they are and what the consequences of lying to potential sexual partners are.

DD is already taller than some of my friends and she's only 11. Thankfully she still has the body of a child but once she hits puberty and develops and also starts wearing makeup , she is going to look much older than her years. I will be teaching her that she should act her age and not lie.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 17/03/2017 22:16

Why do people keep talking about her having fake id and being in a club

I am not privy to all the ins and outs of the case but nothing ive read so far suggests that

1horatio · 17/03/2017 22:17

It makes you wonder at what age she started having sex- very doubtful this was the first time. It makes me sad to think of what kind of life she is living

I think we can all agree with that.

Somebody failed this girl... It's disgusting and IMO there should be severe consquences.

SoupDragon · 17/03/2017 22:17

It is absolutely the parents of the girl who are really at fault in this case. They should be punished
.

I hope the girl manages to come back from this.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 17/03/2017 22:17

Not saying the same people are saying both things

But there have been a few comments on both threads

SuperBeagle · 17/03/2017 22:17

I am not privy to all the ins and outs of the case but nothing ive read so far suggests that

The article talks about she and her friend buying vodka earlier that night.

tabbymog · 17/03/2017 22:18

Rape can also be proven if the defendant was reckless as to whether the victim consented or not; the prosecution doesn't have to prove beyond doubt that the defendant knew she didn't consent. Don't ask me what recklessness is, I know there's at least two different legal definitions of it. It's a loooooong time since I last studied law. I gave it up for something less boring after a first year of criminal law, contract and legal practice. A fragment gets dragged up from the onboard memory backup and dusted off once every blue moon.

msgrinch · 17/03/2017 22:18

No one is disputing that it is legally rape. Of course it is. She is 12, she can't consent. I'm sure if he knew she was 12, considering how distraught he is and his immediate plea of guilt, he wouldn't have done it. She said/looked/was acting well over the age of consent.

The only people at fault are those responisble for caring for her. Her parents/guardians. Not this man and not this girl. Charges need to be brought against them, she needs looking after.

TheFallenMadonna · 17/03/2017 22:19

I'll be teaching both my son and my daughter that drunken sex with a stranger who says he or she is just over the age of consent is risky in all sorts of ways.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 17/03/2017 22:20

super

Children have been known to get alcohol without using fake id

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