To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

[joystir59]

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

[x2boys]

My husband got a conditional discharge last year for assault his was also an unusual and complex case and everybody in the court ie the CPS ,Judge , police ie those that actually had all the evidence agreed a sentence wasent appropriate there was some outrage on social media from people who had just read bits in the paper and made their own judgements who basically didnt have any idea of what had happened i think in this case a sentence isent apprpriate for all the reasons stated above

[Wando1986]

Mapmymum, I was the same. At 14 we were getting lifts home (to my older mates apartment) from the bouncers. On my 18th Birthday one nearly throttled me when I told him it was my 18th. He'd been giving us lifts after nights out for years

[Oblomov17]

I feel really sorry for him. His picture is everywhere. Accused of being a rapist. Which he's not.
She, no one knows who she is. Because that is right. She gets anonymity. She is only 12.

But how come she gets it. And he doesn't? Doesn't seem fair. Double standards?
He's going to be remembered. She's not. I think that's unfair.

[WannaBe]

"Make casual sex illegal? This is my first....are you on glue?" oh do get a grip. Of course it wasn't meant as a serious suggestion, however if people will insist that men are always the responsible ones and should always be sure of the girl's age even if she looks sixteen and says she's sixteen then perhaps there needs to be some responsibility on both sides.

People are naive if they think that a twelve year old isn't capable of lying to that extent and that she didn't know what she was doing. She wanted to have sex. there have been posters on mn over the years who would argue that while sixteen is the legal age of consent there are thirteen/fourteen year olds who would be mature enough to have sex and there are even posters who would take their children to get contraception, the argument being that it's best to protect them rather than discourage them. An attitude I disagree with on all counts.

And I would concede that at fifteen a child could convince their parents they were at one place when actually somewhere else but at twelve? No, the parents were negligent here.

[GreenPeppers]

I know a just turned 13yo (by a few days) who would pass for a 20yo.
Even the way she talks, the way she is holding herself, her knowledge () everything screams she is well over 18yo.

So yes i can understand why this guy would have thought she was as old as she said she was.

The message it is giving ... well it depends on it's presented.
Man walk free after raping a 12yo is clearly not on.
Man walk free as he was GENUINELY mistaken and had done his best to check for consent etc... even though he was wrong is a different issue.

[Hulder]

This is a 12 year old who is out late at night, looks 16, acts 16, busy drinking vodka, happy to behave sexually around men and very likely has had sex before if she agreed to have sex with a complete stranger.

Something has gone desperately wrong in her life but it happened well before she met the man she had sex with that night, who is clearly incredibly upset to find out her age.

Right result in the case, hopefully lots of investigation going on into her family.

[msgrinch]

Poor guy. I can't imagine how he feels. She lied, she was by all accounts consenting and all witnesses agree she looked well above her age. As someone who has managed a nightclub many 12/13 year olds try it and look 18ish. Thank god fo ID scanners and local knowleged. My only issue is with the parents. I hope this guy manages to move on from this, i hope the girl gets help to sort her self-esteem and issues out. He is not a rapist in my eyes.

[WannaBe]

When I was growing up there was a term used to describe young girls who looked and dressed much older than their age - jail bate. It has been ever thus that young girls have dressed up to the hilt and gone out pretending that they're older than they actually are. Let's not naively think that twelve/thirteen year olds are all innocent and don't know what they're doing just because of their age. Many of them absolutely do know what they're doing and it's only when they're older that they realise how stupid they were.

[StarUtopia]

I know a 12 yr old who looks 25. Seriously. Acts it too. She's 5'8, face full of perfect make up, killer figure etc etc. Her irresponsible mother also allows her to go out 'round town'

Read the case. Honestly? I feel for the lad. He genuinely did not know she was underage. He had no reason to suspect. He did not rape her as in force her to have sex. It was a mutual decision. It's classed as rape because she is under the age of consent.

I fear for my son as he grows up. What happens if a girl lies to him and says she's older than she is?

His face is now everywhere. It could have happened to any of our sons.

The girls parents on the other hand need shooting - and I hope social services are informed about the slack parenting.

[TheFallenMadonna]

Whatever your opinion on the outcome Oblomov, you cannot seriously be suggesting that this vulnerable 12yo, who has clearly been failed by lots of people who should be looking out for her, is named publicly??

[PurpleMinionMummy]

I obviously misread the tone of your post wannabe as I thought you were making a serious suggestion!

[1horatio]

At about 04:00, the girl and her friend met Cieslak and one of his friends in a taxi queue.

The victim said she was 16 and her friend was 17. The taxi driver later said he thought the girl was 20.

Cieslak then invited them to a party at his friend's house, where he had sex with the 12-year-old.


I mean, it's 4 in the morning. He meets this in his opinion "young woman", she goes to a party with him... She looks apparently very mature. She says she is above the age of consent, he genuinely thinks she is (apparently...) and the taxi driver thought the same thing. She also gave consenz (Well, she actually couldn't. But he thought she could so he assumed her consent was actual consent...)

Yes, I was horrified at first. But this isn't the same as somebody knowingly doing this to a 12 year old... Or having sex with somebody when he knows they can't give consent!

I mean, how could one know that the "woman" out at 4 in the morning and going to a party, that also happens to look like a 20 yo according to a taxi driver... is actually 12?!


Easy OP - give women a certified by police "I can have Sex Card" when they are 16 so all men need to do is ask women to verify their age. I am unsure at what stage in proceedings between the couple the card is displayed but I am sure that can be worked out. This does put the onus on women to state that they are capable of enjoying their sexuality but does protect the girl in the story so thats a small price to pay.


I like this idea. As a woman I wouldn't mind doing that if this would actually help protect young girls!

[BabychamSocialist]

I was prepared to be raging at this but then I read the story. It really is an exceptional case - I think he believed the girl really was over 16 (they do exist) and considering lots of other people have said the same, the judge believed him. He also burst into tears at finding out she was underage and plead guilty at the first opportunity.

To me, those aren't the actions of somebody who had knowingly slept with someone underage. Like the judge said, it was an exceptional case and took into account all the factors.

Personally, I think we should be questioning the parenting of someone who's allowing their 12/13 year old daughter to go out to nightclubs and drinking etc.

[1horatio]

Btw...

When my youngest sister ws 13 she sometimes made me do her makeup, stole high heels etc. She wasn't allowed to leave the house this way (of course).

But she really did pass for 16. Easily.

It does exist.

Her parents however? THat's disgraceful!!!!

[TheFallenMadonna]

I have a 13yo who looks older. I also have a 15yo son. I rather hope that in the next few years he will manage not to have sex with drunk strangers he has just met in a taxi queue who tell him they are just over the age of consent.

[Wingsofdesire]

How is it rape?

She told everyone she was 16. She willingly had sex.

It would only have been rape if he'd have known she was below the age of consent and had carried on anyhow.

If she's have known she was 12. And he didn't.

[1horatio]

Her parents however?
Not my sister's parents.

The parents of that girl, obviously...

[Ginkypig]

Yes joy we get it! under the law it was rape because under the law a child of her age (12) cannot legally consent. So most of us understand your point.

The problem is that in this particular very unusual case everyone involved including trained police officers except for the child herself (who knew her own age) made reasonable assumption that she was over the age of consent (16)

I feel very sorry for the child as there must be a reason why she thought this was an ok normal scenario to be in (being out in town late at night and going home with a stranger) and feel that needs looked at. I do not want to comment further on what I think about it as that would be unfair gossip about a child.

But I feel sorry for the man too, he went on a night out ended up in bed with girl only to find out later this young woman was infact a child, from everything Iv read so far he is genuinely devastated and disgusted he has been involved in such a horrible situation and will have to live with it forever.
I do feel like even at 16 she would have been a bit young for him in those circumstances but that is my personal opinion.


You are imo muddling the waters of child sexual exploitation by using this case because this is absolutely not the norm for kids who are raped or abused.

[Wingsofdesire]

How is it rape?

She told everyone she was 16. She willingly had sex.

It would only have been rape if he'd have known she was below the age of consent and had carried on anyhow.

If he'd have known she was 12. And he didn't.

[BabychamSocialist]

Also, I totally agree with the idea of a card saying that the person actually is of age, I just wonder if people would really check them before having intercourse.

Presumably in this case, some sort of fake ID was used in the first place because every nightclub in our town (and it's not even a big town) checks ID on the door. You can't even get in the place without photo ID.

[Wingsofdesire]

She said she was 16 so he wouldn't say no.

To my mind HE was pretty much raped.

And yes, where the hell were her parents???

[CoolCarrie]

I think it is bloody terrible that the young man's photograph is out there.
A sad situation all round.

[JustAnotherSilentOldNumber]

got off completely Scot=free

No he didn't, he's been convicted of rape and he photo is everywhere.

[DermotOLogical]

Those of you who can't believe she passed for 16 obviously haven't worked with teenagers. Plenty I teach would pass for 16. In looks, how they talk, and how they carry themselves.

I think the correct verdict has been reached. Responsibility lies with both parties. It's not like he set out to have sex with a 12yo. He thought he'd had sex with a consenting 16yo.

[Wingsofdesire]

As she was only 12, there are only two people to blame: the parents.