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AIBU?

To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

999 replies

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:48

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

OP posts:

Report

KayTee87 · 17/03/2017 21:07

I didn't think I'd ever say this but as well as clearly feeling sorry for a child that feels the need to be out getting drunk and having sex, I also feel a bit sorry for this guy who was 19 thinking he's had sex with a consenting 16 year old then finding out she was actually 12. He must have felt sick and will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

Papafran · 17/03/2017 21:07

The message to men should be- if you aren't sure of the age of the girl then do not have sex with her until you ARE sure

But there was nothing to suggest that he was not sure or that there was anything that should have made him suspect that she was not 16.

DoublyTroubly · 17/03/2017 21:08

How can you be sure of a girls age? Are you saying that they need to carry photo id around with them at all times in case they decide to go home with someone?

abbey44 · 17/03/2017 21:08

There's always the possibility that she wasn't entirely straight with her parents about where she was going and who with on that particular night. They could well have thought that she was staying over with a friend. I'd like to bet they had no idea she was going to be out on the town and in a taxi queue being chatted up at 2 in the morning.

SuperBeagle · 17/03/2017 21:10

a 12 year old isn't able to consent to sex. It is always abuse. Always rape is penetration has taken place.

Obv.

But that's not up for discussion here. The fact is that everyone thought she was older than 16. That is provided for in the law.

The verdict reached was the correct one.

FairfaxAikman · 17/03/2017 21:11

OP unless you have sat through the entire court case you are basing your opinion on a very small proportion of the total evidence, and unfortunately that will leave anyone in a blinkered situation.
Lady Scott came to her conclusion having had access to all of the evidence.
While she may have actually been 12, he believed she was 16 and thus there was no mens rea to commit the offence. Is she said she was 16, well he has hairy ones, not crystal ones...

Therefore this is the right outcome.

TheCakes · 17/03/2017 21:11

I think part of the charge of sexual offences with a minor is knowing or believing that person to be under 16.
In this case, he didn't. It's very unusual, and if I was a 21 year old lad I'd be very wary of having sex with a 16 year old, but he was deceived into believing he was acting lawfully.

noitsnotme · 17/03/2017 21:12

I agree with Katytee87. And I have a 12 year old son. The parents always confirm sleepover arrangements. I hope this case is a lesson to those who don't.

TheFallenMadonna · 17/03/2017 21:12

No verdict needed to be reached. He pleaded guilty and was convicted. The judge gave him an absolute is charge ie no sentence.

museumum · 17/03/2017 21:13

He's not "got off scot free" - he's guilty, a convicted rapist. That's a big label.
He's just not going to prison. For some quite convincing reasons it's felt there's no risk of him doing it again. The judge had good reason to believe he's not a risk to girls.

TheFallenMadonna · 17/03/2017 21:14

Discharge.

There is no mitigation in believing a child under 13 to be 16 or over.

StudentMum92 · 17/03/2017 21:15

I don't believe him to be a rapist, based on what I've read. Poor fella.

WannaBe · 17/03/2017 21:15

How did this come to the attention of the police anyway? Did the parents press charges? Because if they did they should be bloody ashamed of themselves for allowing the girl out at 4 in the morning in the first place.

As for stating that men shouldn't have sex unless they are reasonably sure that the girl is of the correct age, perhaps we ought to just make casual sex illegal? That way a girl who may not be old enough to consent but is still over the age of criminal responsibility can't lie about her age in order to have sex and a teenager who is of the age of consent can't unknowingly have sex with a girl who is under age.

Afaik he pleaded guilty - it was the judge who discharged the case.

And the other thread is in feminism. I wouldn't expect to get a reasoned discussion in there.

duxb · 17/03/2017 21:18

She lied & consented I believe?
You can't expect people to ask other people for ID before having consensual, casual sex.

She has been failed by her guardians - why on earth was she out in that environment at that age?

However, even the police thought she was of age. They couldn't in all sense convict him.

It's a scary sign of our society and casual sex but I don't see how he is the sole villain of the piece

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 21:18

The guy did rape her- it was rape because he had penetrative sex with a 12 year old. He had penetrative sex with a 12 year old. If he had taken the time to get to know her he would have realised from her level of conversation that she wasn't old enough. The judge agreed that he did rape her- he just isn't being sentenced. but he just took her from the taxi rank somewhere where he could get his end away. She is 12.

OP posts:

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 21:20

If I had sexual sex with someone and found out they were 12 I would happily go to prison for it. I would deserve it. He is to blame for t=not taking due care to find out more about her. Even when she said she was 16 alarm bells should have been ringing.

OP posts:

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 21:20

I mean casual sex! All sex is sexual- sorry

OP posts:

VestalVirgin · 17/03/2017 21:20

Who accused him of rape if it was all 100% consensual?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 17/03/2017 21:22

So if she could lie and others believed her

Can he not be lying and thought maybe she is underage maybe 15 but she seems up for it and I want sex with her

Regardless she was only 12 a child a man should not be getting away with having sex with her (

But of course we know how conniving girls and women can be and men can't possibly say no when sex is on offer

StudentMum92 · 17/03/2017 21:22

He didn't know she was 12, he truly believed she was 16, as did other witnesses including the police!?

Seems to me like you have a problem with casual sex in general.

Don't come on AIBU if you just want everyone to agree with you.

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm · 17/03/2017 21:22

Actually, the thread on Feminist chat was incredibly balanced and nuanced.

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 21:22

A 19 yr old had non-coercive sex with someone he believed, as did everyone else, was 16, but turned out to be 12.
If he'd known, or should reasonably have known, then it would have been rape. It's not.
I think the lesson for the young man, and people like him, is that you cannot know for sure, and you should be led by your brain not your genitals, as you don't want to be part of something that is, knowingly or not, abusive for the other party. This is what I think

OP posts:

StillDrivingMeBonkers · 17/03/2017 21:23

This highlights inadequacies in the law:

Age 10 (age 8 in Scotland) = age of criminal responsibilities - ie deemed to be responsible for own actions, yet apparently not able to consent?

Ridiculously grey area that needs addressing

Papafran · 17/03/2017 21:23

If he had taken the time to get to know her he would have realised from her level of conversation that she wasn't old enough

I am sorry, but how exactly do you know this??? There were police officers who spoke to her, who genuinely believed that she was 16, not 12. How can you make a statement like that without knowing the people involved? What do you think would be a fair punishment for the young man?

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 17/03/2017 21:23

You keep saying she is 12. He didn't know that at the time and was led to believe she was over the age of consent. Rightly or wrongly not everyone takes the time to get to know someone before having sex.

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