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Original poster

To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

999 replies

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:48

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

OP posts:
Trainspotting1984 · 17/03/2017 21:23

A very unusual and complex case and the judge made it clear the reasoning behind no further punishment. I initially reacted as you did but after reading her reasons I can understand them

Original poster
joystir59 · 17/03/2017 21:24

Who accused him of rape if it was all 100% consensual?
It isn't possible for a 12 year old to consent to sex, therefore he did rape her.

OP posts:
BakeOffBiscuits · 17/03/2017 21:24

She told the man she was 16

He thought she was 16.

Several police officers, spoke to her and her friend as they were looking for a missing 12 year old. They believed she and her friend were over 16.

A taxi driver thought she was 20.

The man pleased guilty and burst into tears when he found out she was 12.

One night stands are not illegal, so unless you make every woman carry around ID (which can be easily faked anyway) then what else could he have done? And please don't say, not have had sex, as I've said ONSs are not illegal.

PurpleMinionMummy · 17/03/2017 21:25

Make casual sex illegal? This is my first....are you on glue?

harderandharder2breathe · 17/03/2017 21:25

The headline is indeed horrifying

But everyone the girl encountered that evening including police believed her to be over 16. The judge also agreed with this from seeing cctv footage. And she consented. If she'd been a few months older and 13 instead of 12, that consent would count. As she was 12, she can't legally give consent. When the man was told her real age he cried. He didn't target an underage girl, he met someone he thought (and who told him) she was 16, only a few years younger than he was. It's not as straightforward as "man rapes 12 year old".

DonutCone · 17/03/2017 21:26

I think it's absolutely awful his name has been released.

He didn't rape her. That is just ridiculous. It was fully concentual. She said she was 16, everyone around her believed she was at least 16. She was out on the town. Why on earth would he have thought she was 12?

Natsku · 17/03/2017 21:27

If he really believed her to be over 16, and judging by the witness reports that was likely, then he wasn't committing rape as far as he knew. Its a difficult situation - if I ever have a son I will probably teach him not to have sex with anyone who doesn't look at least 20 unless he knows them well enough to know their age.
I feel sorry for the girl, she must have felt under pressure to act grown up and experienced something she shouldn't have had to experience at her age. But the judge was right.

NoWinNoFfi · 17/03/2017 21:27

I feel sorry for him too. I know it's a strict liability offense and that's probably how it should remain, but this sounds like one of the very, very few instances where it produces an unfair result.

JellyBoat · 17/03/2017 21:27

He had no intention of having sex with a 12 year old, or of forcing himself on anyone. Can you not see how different that is to someone who did have that intention?

Oblomov17 · 17/03/2017 21:28

Completely disagree. There is nothing about this case that sends out the the wrong message.
Loads of people thought she was older than she was, the police, the off-licence that sold her the vodka, the taxi driver, the judge. The accused.
She 'appeared to give consent', gave no indication she was not giving consent, gave no indication of distress the next morning. Then she left, and told her sister she was worried she was pg.
I have every sympathy with him.

NauticalDisaster · 17/03/2017 21:28

YANBU - it is disgusting that no sentence was given.

duxb · 17/03/2017 21:28

Clearly you are offended by anyone disagreeing with you.

If he was "thinking with his genitals" then what on earth were the motives of the girl? Dressing up, attending a night (early morning) out in that environment, lying about her age, consenting to sex and I imagine in all this, also lying to her parent or guardian.

Society being overly sexualised is the issue here. He admitted the count due to her age and the legalities around it, it doesn't make him the devil nor should it mean he is prosecuted fur believing what was clearly a very convoluted, convincing lie by the young girl.

celtiethree · 17/03/2017 21:28

absoulte discharge, "a finding of guilt is made but no conviction is registered", he won't be placed on the sex register and no conditions made that he needs to follow. An advanced disclosure check will show the absolute discharge. If no conviction is registered I don't think he can be called a convicted rapist. I think the judge made the right decision.

seafoodeatit · 17/03/2017 21:29

So incredibly sad that somebody out so young was out at such an hour and drinking alcohol, spirits at that. At that time, in a city center anything could have happened to them, grown women are victims every day much less children so young. I feel for the boy, it seems he really did think she was 16, who in their right mind would think kids would be out at that hour partying?

Pallisers · 17/03/2017 21:29

I think the girl was worried she might be pregnant, told her sister and things went from there. She didn't run off after the encounter saying it was non consensual sex. It was not disputed that she had consented. The point about being 12 is that you cannot consent so any sex is rape.

I think this is an entirely exceptional case and won't set any precedent. He was lucky - if you can say that. My guess is if there wasn't the evidence of the stone-cold sober police and tax driver, the result would be different.

I think the verdict was correct in this case but in some ways I can see what joystir is saying. If you have casual sex with a stranger, you need to be prepared for anything - an STI, a partner or spouse popping up, a pregnancy with someone you don't even know, and yes, that she/he lied about her/his age.

I do judge whoever was responsible for that girl though.

There's always the possibility that she wasn't entirely straight with her parents about where she was going and who with on that particular night. They could well have thought that she was staying over with a friend. I'd like to bet they had no idea she was going to be out on the town and in a taxi queue being chatted up at 2 in the morning.

Yes it might happen, but when mine were 12 (and 13/14), I knew where they were having a sleepover, had checked in briefly with the mother and would be checking in by text too. Another poster said upthread about her 12 year olds 13 year old friends being out on the town and on contraception. Epic failing of those children.

DonutCone · 17/03/2017 21:31

Also my friend has a DD who was 12 last week. She could easily pass for 16. She is 5ft 5, fully developed, has highlights and wears a lot of makeup. If you saw her out on the town with a friend I defy any of you to be able to say she has just turned 12. How much harder would it be if she told you herself she was 16?

At least one judge has some common sense.

Papafran · 17/03/2017 21:32

it is disgusting that no sentence was given

What would be an appropriate sentence in your view?

streetch · 17/03/2017 21:32

I feel quite sorry for him actually, he wasn't the only one who believed she was over the age of consent - the judge agreed that she looked over 16, the taxi driver thought she was 20, the police who were actually out looking for underage girls spoke to her and didn't realise she was so young and presumably someone sold her that vodka. He thought he was having sex with a 16 year old which is totally legal. She was out drinking at 4am, where were her parents?

Toddlerteaplease · 17/03/2017 21:33

I can well believe a 12 year old could look 16 or even older. Some of the kids we get at work certainly do and many of the children who pop up on Facebook as 'missing' easily pass for Late teens. This girl had gone into town with another girl and bought vodka. The man really thought she was over 16 and sex was consensual. Even though at 12 she's considered too young.

scottishdiem · 17/03/2017 21:33

Easy OP - give women a certified by police "I can have Sex Card" when they are 16 so all men need to do is ask women to verify their age. I am unsure at what stage in proceedings between the couple the card is displayed but I am sure that can be worked out. This does put the onus on women to state that they are capable of enjoying their sexuality but does protect the girl in the story so thats a small price to pay.

BakeOffBiscuits · 17/03/2017 21:34

Jelly "He had no intention of having sex with a 12 year old, or of forcing himself on anyone. Can you not see how different that is to someone who did have that intention?"

This ^^^^

MapMyMum · 17/03/2017 21:34

When I was 13 I was getting into nightclubs without fake ID so obviously I looked more than old enough to pass for 18, so its reasonable that this 12 year old could pass for 16

Groovee · 17/03/2017 21:35

Her sister alerted people to what had happened after the girl confided she thought she was pregnant.

HostaFireAndIce · 17/03/2017 21:36

If I had sexual sex with someone and found out they were 12 I would happily go to prison for it.

He did plead guilty. Maybe he was expecting to go to prison for it, who knows? It was the judge who chose not to punish him.

BToperator · 17/03/2017 21:36

I read the headline and was horrified, but having read the details I think the judge was absolutely right. He was convicted of rape, and rightly so, as he committed the offence, however, given the circumstances, I think having a conviction for rape is enough of a punishment. I think if anyone needs punishing it is the parents of that 12 year old, who allowed her to be out drinking vodka in the early hours of the morning when she should have been safe at home in bed.