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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To want rid of upstairs neighbour

161 replies

ChrisYoungFuckingRocks · 15/03/2017 08:26

I live in a ground floor flat with a garden. There are two floors above me. A young girl with SN moved into the top (3rd floor flat) a few months ago. She is making all our lives a misery. She has three carers a day, and a sleep-in carer at night. I used to be a support worker for people with learning difficulties, so I am fully aware of what it can be like. However, they can't seem to control her.

She deliberately throws cigarette butts into my garden. I have to pick up 20-40 butts every day. My DD has ASD with pica, and I'm worried one of those butts are going to end up in her mouth. She throws milk and cream all over the middle neighbour's balcony and my patio. She treats me garden like her personal rubbish bin. She sits in the communal areas smoking with her friends (with a clear NO SMOKING sign right there), and leaves butts everywhere. The other day the neighbours stopped her throwing things at my car, and told me it looked like she was trying to break my car window. Neigbours had to call the police the other night as she was sitting in the middle of the road. And last night the final straw - she threw chinese takout all over my patio and garden. My garden is covered in sticky rice and other food.

The estate agents won't give out the LLs name or number (data protection). The carers won't give out any information as they have to protect their client's privacy. Her behaviour is getting worse and the carers can't or won't try to control it. The LL is by all accounts an arsehole who charges a huge amount rent (for the area) and will rent it out to anyone who can pay.

AIBU to want her out? I honestly don't think she has the capacity to live alone - she belongs in a home. And I don't say this lightly. Who can I contact, and WWYD?

OP posts:

ChasedByBees · 15/03/2017 08:32

No idea but it sounds very hard. :(

SaucyJack · 15/03/2017 08:35

Can you insist on the carers coming down to clear your garden of fag butts and rubbish for starters?

If she genuinely cannot control her behaviour, and they genuinely cannot get her to stop, then they should at least be making good the effects of any anti-social behaviour on the neighbours.

MrsTwix · 15/03/2017 08:37

I think you can probably get the landlords details from the land registry.

You can also call the adult team at social services or whatever they call themselves now and tell them you are concerned that she isn't being cared for properly and that her carers are putting her tenancy at risk due to not dealing with her anti social behaviour. They can find her from the address on their system if you don't know her name.

You can call your local council anti social behaviour team.

You can call environmental health about the food everywhere and say that pest control will be needed soon

You can call the police on the non emergency number to complain about the rocks being thrown at your car. They won't do anything much, but they will log it and it all adds up as evidence that it's not a suitable living situation for her.

You can speak to your county councillor or equivalent as it's probably them that are paying for the care workers not to do their job properly.

Hope you get some resolution. Possibly with different care workers the situation may be resolved, if not then you are right it's not suitable.

Original poster

ChrisYoungFuckingRocks · 15/03/2017 09:13

Thanks for the advice and listening to my rant. I just saw the carer having a smoke on the balcony and told her (not in a very friendly tone of voice - I have asked them on numerous occasions about the cig butts) to send someone down to clean up the food mess. She said she didn't see it last night as it was dark, but it happened at around 5:30pm, so it was still plenty light.

The carers are more interested standing on the balcony or hanging out the back windows smoking and talking on their phones to do anything.

OP posts:

Original poster

ChrisYoungFuckingRocks · 15/03/2017 09:15

Update - the carer just came into my garden and cleaned up most of the mess and around 10 cig butts.

She told me there are two SN girls living in the flat now and that it's the new girl causing all the fuss. She acted very surprised when I told her it's been going on for months, long before the newest girl moved in. Oh joy .

OP posts:

MiscellaneousAssortment · 15/03/2017 09:18

I was with you until this "she belongs in a home."

Fucking hell that's offensive. No, she doesn't 'belong in a home' as you mean it. She deserves to have carers that do their jobs effectively, and the estate agents need to complain to the landlord properly.

But don't ever ever- say that really upsetting and cruel statement again. There's no excuse for that at all. And I was so sympathetic up til that point.

Sunnysky2016 · 15/03/2017 09:20

The big concern here is that the support workers are putting her tenency at risk. They should be the ones to be supporting her to clean up her mess. (And not to do it in the first place). It's a difficult situation. Do you know which care organisation are supporting her? Maybe ask where they work and go directly to the organisation with your concerns.

Monkeypuzzle32 · 15/03/2017 09:23

You need to go down the San route with the council and police (if she's targeting your property)

Sunnysky2016 · 15/03/2017 09:23

And yes the 'belongs in a home statement' is uncalled for.
What we need is more support for people with learning disabilities and mental health problems to be able to live independently within the community.

Ubertasha2 · 15/03/2017 09:25

Sympathies, OP. I agree with a past poster that she shouldn't really be living in this flat if she can't behave herself/live independently. Sadly, it probably would be better for her to be in a home where she has 24 hour care and won't be a bother to people in flats. It probably costs a fortune to house her here (plus carers o/n) etc.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 15/03/2017 09:27

I'm (physically) disabled by the way, and have to deal with the cruelty of others a lot on real life. I'm excluded and pushed out of stuff because I'm different and annoying with my wheels getting in the way, and my slowness doing stuff.

Do you want me put in a home too?

Im sure lots of people will explain to me why I have no right to feel like this but you've really upset me.

Original poster

ChrisYoungFuckingRocks · 15/03/2017 09:28

I was with you until this "she belongs in a home."

Perhaps I worded that wrong. Some people have the capacity for independant living, others don't. Someone as aggressive as her, and with her behaviour, needs to live in a secure unit, or, well, there's not other way to put it, in a care home where she can have 24 hour care. A 'home' these days doesn't mean what it meant in the old days. I've been a carer in a home, and they each have their own bedroom that they can decorate as they choose, a comfortable living area and plenty of socialising. They get taken on outings every day and can have friends around. There are usually only around 4 people in one home as well. Not like the old 'institution' days.

I did not say that to mean offense, and I know how it sounds, but it really isn't like that.

OP posts:

Original poster

ChrisYoungFuckingRocks · 15/03/2017 09:33

Im sure lots of people will explain to me why I have no right to feel like this but you've really upset me.

I am truly sorry - I didn't mean to upset anyone. But you have the capacity to know that throwing stones at cars is wrong, yes? You know you can't pour cream all over your neighbour's balcony, or chuck 40 cigarette butts into their garden, yes? You know you can't smoke with your friends right in front of a No Smoking sign, yes? Well, she can't understand that's wrong. She doesn't have the capacity to do that. Not her fault, just the way her brain works.

And I have an autistic daughter. Should I be happy for her to have to fight her way through piles of butts and crap to play in her own garden? Should I take the chance of her putting all this crap into her mouth? All not to upset the neighbour causing all the hassle in the first place? Should I put her ahead of my own daughter? Really??

OP posts:

mayoli · 15/03/2017 09:39

Also was with you until the 'should be put in a home' comment. As an autistic and disabled person I read that as offensive and upsetting. You also mentioned that her carers are useless- this is down to carers not doing their job properly (which happens more than I can say). Not sure what you can do about it but it seems to be the root of the problem to an extent.

Sweetninja30 · 15/03/2017 09:39

OP when you said 'home' I assumed you meant an assisted living facility. We have one a couple of roads away from us and it's really nice. I think that some or the agencies that supply care workers do not train their employees up to a sufficient standard (I'm loathe to say that some people shouldn't be working as carers, but I suppose in some cases it's that too). This means that the ladies with SN's upstairs from you are probably not having the support they need. Log the issues, and take pictures of the food/cigarette ends/damage in the garden to back it up. Hopefully the situation will improve.

Sunnysky2016 · 15/03/2017 09:41

Please don't use the 'secure unit' phrase.
This would only happen if she was a 'danger' to herself or others. Yes what she is doing is 'annoying' but she's not endangering your life or hers.
Just find out the organisation and contact them directly.

Original poster

ChrisYoungFuckingRocks · 15/03/2017 09:42

OP when you said 'home' I assumed you meant an assisted living facility.

Yes, that's what I meant. And they are usually very nice places. Not at all like the 'institutions' of the old days, which is what many people still associate with when someone says 'home'.

OP posts:

CouldntMakeThisShitUp · 15/03/2017 09:44

if it's a legit landlord they will be registered with the local council.
you can check for owner/letting agent details for free on most council websites - if not just call them

you could contact their MH team manager directly and voice your concerns
the police should also be reporting any call outs to the girls SW/care team - im sure it's part of safeguarding
the carers should NOT be smoking on duty - especially given the circumstances. i'd keep a video diary of the mess and the carers behaviour, just in case you need to show proof

repaintthesky · 15/03/2017 09:45

Document, with photographs where necessary and keep a log of all the anti-social behaviour, OP, then write to the LL (land registry will have their address) and the neighbour's local care services.

Your strongest points of complaint are the behaviour of the care workers and how the anti-social behaviour is impacting your DD's SN. Be prepared that NDN will deny your complaints, driven in part by smoking regulations that may well be attached to new accommodation.

The responsibility for suitable accommodation for NDN lies with her care services who are at present failing her.

Original poster

ChrisYoungFuckingRocks · 15/03/2017 09:45

Yes what she is doing is 'annoying' but she's not endangering your life or hers.

But she is putting my autistic daughter's health at risk. And I should just be happy with her breaking my car windows. It's much more than just being annoying I'm afraid .

Look, I'm all for people living independently, I used to do community outreach. But some people don't have the capacity to do that. I'm not trying to be nasty, but that is the truth of the matter.

OP posts:

MrsTwix · 15/03/2017 09:48

She is sitting in the road and throwing things. She is a danger to herself and others.

As for the comment about her being in a home, it wasn't meant in a nasty way, and it's probably true.

pixiepoopoo · 15/03/2017 09:50

Can people just stop being offended & stick to the point. Living under these conditions sounds like hell to me . All is needed is some advice on how to deal with it. I would contact social services first & if anyone damaged my car i would call the police

MycatsaPirate · 15/03/2017 09:51

It's not 'annoying' it's anti-social behaviour.

I used to work for a charity that had various houses where they had 2-3 young adults with SN and disabilities living there with 24 hour support workers. It worked very well.

It seems this lady needs more than just support a few times a day.

And harsh or not, she is putting the op's dd at risk with her littering and also her own wellbeing at risk if she continues throwing things at cars, trying to break windows etc. Some people may not be as patient as the op.

Owllady · 15/03/2017 09:51

Actually it sounds like she is putting her life at risk if she is sitting in the middle of the road :(
I'd ring social services adult team and I'd lodge a stage one complaint with the council via email (this might give them a kick up the arse to do something) She's being seriously let down.
It's unfortunate you've used the phrases about homes and secure units but I'm willing to accept you were being clumsy. My daughter is going through adult transition atm (she has SLD) and I actually dread to think what the council would deem appropriate if she hadn't got a family working on her behalf. They are letting alot of vulnerable people down in this country because it all comes down to money.

MrsBluesky1 · 15/03/2017 09:56

I've worked in care homes and it's really not the insult it sounds. They get home cooked meals they pick and help with, and as much socialising as they want.just a bit of extra support. And if she's doing all of the above, she could really benefit from it.

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