To want rid of upstairs neighbour

[ChrisYoungFuckingRocks]

I live in a ground floor flat with a garden. There are two floors above me. A young girl with SN moved into the top (3rd floor flat) a few months ago. She is making all our lives a misery. She has three carers a day, and a sleep-in carer at night. I used to be a support worker for people with learning difficulties, so I am fully aware of what it can be like. However, they can't seem to control her.

She deliberately throws cigarette butts into my garden. I have to pick up 20-40 butts every day. My DD has ASD with pica, and I'm worried one of those butts are going to end up in her mouth. She throws milk and cream all over the middle neighbour's balcony and my patio. She treats me garden like her personal rubbish bin. She sits in the communal areas smoking with her friends (with a clear NO SMOKING sign right there), and leaves butts everywhere. The other day the neighbours stopped her throwing things at my car, and told me it looked like she was trying to break my car window. Neigbours had to call the police the other night as she was sitting in the middle of the road. And last night the final straw - she threw chinese takout all over my patio and garden. My garden is covered in sticky rice and other food.

The estate agents won't give out the LLs name or number (data protection). The carers won't give out any information as they have to protect their client's privacy. Her behaviour is getting worse and the carers can't or won't try to control it. The LL is by all accounts an arsehole who charges a huge amount rent (for the area) and will rent it out to anyone who can pay.

AIBU to want her out? I honestly don't think she has the capacity to live alone - she belongs in a home. And I don't say this lightly. Who can I contact, and WWYD?

Well she belongs somewhere and it certainly is not where she is now. She needs full time supervision. It's antisocial behavior and someone must be responsible for her. It's not fair on you and not your problem. You need to make an official complaint to her careers and demand that they give you the name of their leader

Bonadrag - this is the last I'm saying to you. I received my training in 2015. Yes, you can reasonably restrain them to stop them endangering their own lives, for example putting an arm in front of them to stop them running into a busy road (pulling them away as an absolute last resort), or push their hand away when they reach for the hot stove plate, but you cannot physically restrain and hold them down when they're going mental and running havoc. At least not in their own homes. Care homes have different rules and more 'control'.

If she wanted to go out the carers could not stop her. If she was sitting in the middle of the road they would not be able to physically pick her up and force her back inside. That's why the police were called. I don't know if the carers called the police, or only the neighbours or both. I wasn't here.

Bonadrag, you can't have it both ways, either she is deemed suitable to live here with careers, in which case she and the careers are responsible for her actions, or she needs to be in assisted living with 24 hr care

The opportunity to visit your favourite shops is not exactly an unreasonable request to put on your support worker, is it? Do you want some sort of medal for doing the bare minimum for the people you were paid to support, or what?

I honestly don't see that it's 'dehumanising' language. I can see that it's more how we usually talk about children but isn't it really just a way of talking about people with lower capacity?

You are totally wrong on restraint. Like I said, reasonable, proportionate and necessary force can be used if the person is at risk of harming themselves or another person.

Who on earth did your training?

Adults with disabilities are not children and should be not be treated as such. Hope that helps!

If you can't see how people saying things like 'they get taken out every day' and 'get to go on holiday' and having her carers discuss her capacity with a neighbour is dehumanising then I give up. I really really do.

Well give up then. If you can't see how someone without the capacity to be able to feed themselves or even realise that they're being taken out because they're locked in their own little world needs to be in a place where they can be cared for, then you don't have a clue. And the carers didn't discuss her with me, they said they couldn't discuss her with me. But I've been a carer and I'm not blind. The only thing she said was that she agrees that this girl doesn't have the capacity to live independently.

That's discussing her with you, and is totally wrong. You're ridiculous.

Tbh bondrag, my adult child with disabilities is still a child and she's my child and if she was being subjected to the kind of care the OP is describing, including the breech in confidentiality, I would be heartbroken :(

And you're shit stirring. If an 20-year old has the mental capacity of a 2-year old child, then they won't understand if you act towards them like you would towards a 20-year old. THEY DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY!

Did you ring social services Chris?

I'll get some advice from them tomorrow Owl.

Sorry what? We should treat adults with disabilities like children because they don't understand otherwise? And you say you're a support worker?

Wow.

Exactly owllady. The whole situation is horrifying. Everyone involved needs to take a serious look at themselves.

Bonadrag1988 Get off your high horse. Yes they 'get to' go out, meaning they are enabled and given the opportunity to go to the shops etc as some do not have the capacity or ability to do this alone, that is why they have carers/support workers/personal enablers for 24hr care (such as the lady mentioned). The home the pp mentioned, the service users may not be able to just pop to the shops. Not all service users have the same needs.
It is also not the bare minimum to take them to their favourite shops, sometimes it takes a lot of planning such as staff levels (you may need 2:1), staff training (you might have an epileptic service user who has regular siezures and you need to be trained to give the meds), finances for taxis, buses etc.

OK, next time I'll force the 3-year old 20-year old to do a very complex crossword puzzle because she's 20 and really should be able to do it. She's not a child and HAS to do adult things, even though she's non-verbal and can't read or write. Gotcha!

Sure that's exactly what I said OP. Absolutely. Except I didn't in any way say that. And describing someone as a '3year old 20 year old' is incredibly dehumanising. I think you're in the wrong job.
Anyway, yep, yabu.

Exactly Jayne. It's not a matter of just popping out quickly. It takes hours of preparation. It's not the bare minimum, it's going all out to make sure they get to do what they want to do.

The entire point of support workers is to support people to do ordinary things that non-disabled people take for granted. Believe me, I know the amount of planning and risk assessment involved in making this possible for people, especially people who have extremely challenging behaviour or high levels of care needs. However that is the bare minimum requirement of the job, it's not going all out, it's the basic requirement of the job. If you think it's going all out (do the the bare minimum that the job requires you to do) then I dont really know what to say to that.

You used to be a support worker and you're saying that someone has the mental capacity of a 2 year old? We don't use that language any more and haven't for years!

Bonadrag1988 but sometimes it is going all out. When some service users have planned activities, using up a lot of their finances (they arent cheap) and staff hours. Trying to find the money for transport, making sure you have a couple of hours of 'spare' care hours, sometimes its not that easy and im sure most staff would like it to be as easy as 'hey, lets go to topshop etc, grab your coat'.

No, the bare minimum is getting them bathed/showered, brushing their teeth, feeding them and plonking them in front of the TV for the day.

No one said it was easy. It's still the bare minimum requirement for the job. Lots of jobs are difficult or time consuming or expensive or require a high level of skill; they have minimum requirements. Support work is no different; the minimum requirement is that you make it possible for people to access parts of life that they are typically excluded from, or would find difficult to access without support. If you can't do that then you're not up to the job, simple as.

Where exactly did I say it was as easy as 'let's go to top shop'?

I am concerned regarding some of the language used , Adults with Learning disability's have the right ( as all of us do ) to make an unwise decision .
I would focus more on the support she receives , from what you have written breach of confidentiality has occurred and inability to manage, in a positive manner the behaviour that is being presented, however this does not mean that the individual lacks capacity.
Residential Care is very different to Supported Living and Support Plans if needed should be tailored to individual needs , which can include safe holds as long as they are proportionate etc.

I would as suggested contact the Adult Learning Disability Team and express your concerns