To be terrified about what will happen if the Gender Identity Bill is passed?

[TheWorldAccordingToToads]

I'm a nervous wreck right now

Will it replace sex as a protected characteristic? Does that mean that women will have no legal protection at all?

I'm scared .

I really think it's very premature to start sending letters like the one suggested by PageStill until we actually see the terms of the Bill. We can't assume that it will have all the consequences set out in that letter precisely because it may well be that there would be protections built in along the lines of my previous post, and it would weaken any objections severely if everyone has gone off half-cocked about something that in fact turns out not to be an issue.

Not necessarily. There are exceptions under the Equality Act that mean, for instance, that a male nurse can't complain of sex discrimination if a woman doesn't want a smear test done by him. I'm sure exactly the same exceptions could be built in for gender issues.

Could.

I do not think that is happening, though.

We live in an age where idiocy reigns supreme and facts are not important anymore.

Where do you get the suggestion that the idea is to abolish sex as a protected characteristic and replace it by gender identity? So far as I can see, what has been said about the Bill is that the purpose is to make gender identity a protected characteristic in place of gender reassignment, which is considerably different

As I understand it, once someone has a GRC (gender reassignment certificate) they legally have to be treated as their "new sex". So a man legally is now a woman and vice versa. They cannot be treated any differently to a "real" man/woman.

If the requirement for a GRC is removed then legally anyone who merely identifies as the opposite sex is the opposite sex and must be treated as such. Anyone can choose to.identify as the opposite sex, it would be illegal to challenge them.

'I'm sure exactly the same exceptions could be built in for gender issues'

Yes, COULD be.
But from Maria Miller's dismissal of the issues so far it doesn't look like she intends to, so this is the whole point - that we need to kick up a fuss NOW to make sure that any new legislation takes these things into account.
If we just ignore it and say we're sure it will all be fine then we will only have ourselves to blame if it's not.

@PlayOnWurtz
This was posted yesterday on another thread.

*I don't know if this is the correct place to post. I'm a long time lurker, but this issue has me perplexed and exasperated to a point of wanting to contribute in some way. Without going into too much detail for fear of being identified, I work in the NHS in the field of mental health. My Trust yesterday emailed everyone a copy of a newly prepared 'Trans Policy', which, in addition to very reasonable sections concerning tackling discrimination & treating Trans people with respect, also deals with which psychiatric wards Trans people should be admitted to.

It states very clearly that Transwomen are to be placed on female psychiatric wards, and that they are not required to show evidence that they have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria (as this can be embarrassing for them). It goes on to highlight that as the self-care of these individuals will often be poor (as it frequently is in psychiatric patients) it should be accepted that these patients may have a beard & not be wearing clothing in line with their chosen gender. It also states that the length of time they have been living as their chosen gender is of no consequence. So, in theory, a person in a suit & tie, with a beard, who has been living as Brenda for 3 months will be admitted on to a female ward.

Perhaps most chilling is the statement that if any existing patients complain they should be told the trans person had the right to be there and, if there are further complaints, they should be removed from the ward.

Female in- patient psychiatric patients are extremely vulnerable & experience a significantly higher rate of sexual and physical abuse than the the general female population. Colleagues tell me they have similar policies in their NHS Trusts. I am sickened by this. We are failing these most vulnerable women.

Probably won't post a great deal more, as might be identifying, but wanted to share. The few staff I have discussed this with are deeply concerned & are planning to make these concerns known. Will be interesting to see what the response there is. *

Have a look at varmit coyote on you tube. He is type of 'woman' who a rape victim would be committing a hate crime against if the refuse to let him do their exam.

TheWorldAccordingToToads

I admire your determination to separate the two issues and I understand it.

Can women identify as men because they "feel" they'd like to??

And does anyone know how this bill works in Ireland as it's already in place there?

But other people don't get it. I can't even speak out about this IRL because I know I'll be labelled a bigot and a transphobe when it's not even about trans gendered people!

I respect your POV Megatherium but personally I'd rather feel a bit daft after the event for going off half-cocked and finding there was nothing to worry about after all (although based on the link to CPS guidance for schools and the MHCP's report on their ward's new Trans policy, I fear there is something to worry about) than assume it's all going to be fine, do nothing and wake up through the looking glass with no way back to common sense and female safety.

SloanyAnne
Women will be kicked off mental health wards for objecting to sharing? Thats chilling. WTF just happened to patient dignity?

Utterly chilling.

That's disgusting sloany so a man's identity trumps a womans safety. When mental health wards are simply for the absolutely sickest of the sick and usually suicidal ideation and self harm in there too. They will kick a woman out. Where is their duty of care?

I know, it's seriously messed up!

But from Maria Miller's dismissal of the issues so far it doesn't look like she intends to, so this is the whole point - that we need to kick up a fuss NOW to make sure that any new legislation takes these things into account. If we just ignore it and say we're sure it will all be fine then we will only have ourselves to blame if it's not.

Firstly, it's a Private Members Bill. Very few of those make it into law. If it shows signs of becoming law, every word will have to be very carefully considered both by MPs and civil servants, including Parliamentary Draftsmen who are well used to considering the implications of proposed legislation on other legislation. You can be sure that it will be considered in the context of the Equality Act as a whole, including its exceptions, and it is inevitable that exceptions for situations such as intimate examinations, Rape Centres and the like will be considered. Of course we don't know what the outcome of that will be, but do we seriously consider that a Conservative government is going to let through something with no exceptions of that nature?

Secondly, no-one is saying we should "just ignore" the possible dangers. What we should do is wait till we know whether they actually exist before deciding to get "terrified" about them.

YANBU. It is awful. Danielle, whose delightful face has been posted above, spends the majority of 'her' time campaigning to be allowed in women's bathrooms. The dude won't even shave or make a modicum of an effort to even appear feminine. So is basically a man wanting access to female spaces.

People I do not have a problem with: the very very small number of people who suffer from a deep-seated feeling of being born in the wrong body, obtain a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, undergo hormone treatment and surgery, including in the case of MTF, the removal of the penis. They should be treated socially and legally as the new gender.

People I do have a problem with: non-op men who claim that they are women, understand women's issues and want access to women's spaces. They are very vocal- interestingly, you almost never hear of FTM trans people, nor indeed do you get many non-op women claiming to be men. Some verbally abuse lesbians for not wanting to date someone with a penis. They expect female employment quotas to be lowered to make way for 'self-identifying' women. They want to silence anything that has to do with biological features of being a woman- periods, childbirth, pregnancy, menopause is also off limits because it discriminates. They believe their inability to carry a child is a breach of human rights.

Perfect case: 'Lian' Huntley, child murderer, rapist, pedophile, wifebeater. But probably soon the poster 'girl' for the trans movement who will insist that he is moved to a women's prison. Because surely if everyone can choose their gender, you can't say no to those who are convicted criminals?

So scary that the world has become this way in such a short time space. I am genuinely scared too.

Seriously they are on dodgy ground with that. They have a duty of care to protect the women on their wards from harm, including self harm, does the eviction also stretch to women under section?

I don't get this at all

And many female mh problems are either partly caused by sexual abuse from men or men victimise them because their mh problems leave them vulnerable.

I've worked in mh before, never on wards, came across only two women out of 50 or so who weren't victims of rape.

I'm just quoting a post from another thread. I don't know the details but it's been bothering me. People are vulnerable enough in hospital without all the added stuff.

Megatherium - you seem to know a lot about these things. Can you give us an idea of how long it would be between the wording being drafted and the bill being debated for acceptance? A few days, weeks, months, years?

The Bill will not become law.

It's a private members bill and it doesn't have government support. No government support = no majority = no new law

There are 100s of private members bills every year. Less than 10 - all ones with government support - become law. This will not be one of them.

MPs use private members bills to get an issue on the agenda. This is not a genuine attempt to change the law. It's about raising the issue. The law isn't changing.

The background is that the government response to the recommendations of the women and equalities committee report on transgender people was a lot of "we will monitor" and "we will review", which is government speak for "Thanks for all your thoughts. Now toddle off and do something else" Minister bins report.

The chair of the committee is using this private members bill to remind the government that she still thinks it's an important issue.

There will be no law.

Mega the Irish equicilant of this bill went through super quickly. As have similar bills in several other countries. Jenny Murray just got in shit from the BBC for mildly voicing her opinion on this. Peadophiles are okd in the BBC but a woman having an opinion on what it means to be a women is silenced with disciplinary.

PageStillNotFound404, thank you for that letter as I have been struggling to find the right words. I have used your letter as a basis for an email I sent to my MP this evening.

Everyone who is concerned about the ramifications of this bill should contact their MP.

Has anyone considered that the golf club who wouldn't let women in may finally be taken over by MNetters rocking up and identifying as men? (trying to lighten the mood....)

Where else can we start claiming male identity to our advantage? I'm thinking starting with loo queues.....

Sadly it'll not be the inevitable court case where a woman who was raped undeniably by a penis owner is declared a liar based on the accused being a 'woman' and therefore it couldn't have happened to wake people up. Instead, we'll have to wait for the outrage of 2 hairy, testosterone-fuelled transwomen playing in in the 'women's final' at Wimbledon for people to start wondering what has happened.

On a serious note....this is worrying.