Humiliated and so angry at 4 year old

[hadenough7]

I'm so angry and exhausted and really need some perspective on whether I'm being unreasonable. 4 year old is sweet and lovely at times but very demanding and needs constant attention. He has to be asked to do everything 10 times. He's very impulsive and does things he knows he's not supposed to, mostly without thinking then regrets it I think. He makes a mess everywhere. I can't get anything done all he says is mummy mummy mummy all day long. He asks for snacks every 5 minutes. I'm worn out and snappy. Today I really haven't been very nice at all. We were going to a class we do regularly. I told him we were going, all fine in the car, got there and got changed, played with his friends in the waiting room. Times to go in and he starts crying and clinging to me. I tried to encourage him but he refused to go in. Class started without him. I had his younger brother toddling around and said come on everyone's waiting, we don't have time for this. He started really crying and carrying on. I started to get really annoyed as I felt like he'd waited until we'd all gone to all the effort of getting him here and then chose to kick off in front of everyone. The teacher said he's got really bad separation anxiety but has he? Or is he just being a pain in the arse? I just can't see anything clearly anymore I feel so mad at him because life is a constant struggle, his brother gets ignored and I just feel like I'm failing him and failing at life in general. He is just such hard work. Ended up leaving class in a massive tantrum with everyone looking. He's already tried to bite me in the supermarket and completely ignored me in the park when I told him to come. I just look stupid and end up shouting and I hate being a shouty parent. I just want to bring out the best in him like his amazing pre-school teachers but I honestly think I bring out the worst in him.

"no matter how many times we returned him"

How many times was that? Ive seen supernanny type programs where the first few nights they returned the child literally 40 or 50 times.

hadenough I think one thing that you need to recognise that whilst you are struggling right now, you are clearly a GREAT MUM!

• you recognise that thinks are not working
• you are willing to make changes and take advice on board
• you realise that it is your behaviour that is partly to blame.

Honestly recognising those things, and taking this kind of approach to parenting is what will lead to a brilliant and lasting relationship with your son, even if you are struggling now.

I always did a lot of role play with my DC before we did things I thought might result in challenging behaviour.
For example on the way to playgroup I would ask them how they were going to play, what type of things shouldn't they do, what would happen if they snatched a toy, what would the other child feel, what would the parent think. Etc etc... I'd get them to think about their behaviour beforehand IYSWIM Then afterwards we might review how things went. I would compliment them on good behaviour etc. if they had done something naughty I would ask them to suggest how they could handle it better the next time.
That sounds a bit right on but it worked for us.

This too will pass, and then he will think of another way to annoy you. My "little boy" is in his 40s and driving me mad at the moment. Don't want to depress you and hope your's grows up faster than mine.

He sounds ever so much like my 4 yo DS2, except mine doesn't have separation anxiety any more. He does have bloody stubborn "I don't feel like doing this today so I won't" though - and we've had several sessions like the one you described.
However - and this is probably a parenting fail on my part - I've only once followed through on the "if you don't start joining in I'll take you home" thing, because usually after threatening it a couple of times, he does get on with it.
As in:
Join in, Ds2.
No.
Join in, Ds2, go on, you know you enjoy it.
No.
Then we'll go home.
Nooooooo!!
Go on then, join in.

I've sent you a private message op.

I always praise praise praise good behaviour. I explain why bad behaviour is not acceptable and disappointing. It is important to give specific reasons so that your son understands what is unacceptable and what would be great. I would then remind him regularly and in advance so he knows what to expect - get a dialogue going with him before you go to the class: explain what upset you last time, learn what's bothering him. I always follow through with consequences and rewards (even when really inconvenient). The biting has to stop - if he does it again I would explain about how much it hurts - have him help to bathe it and gently apply ointment to the bite, etc. followed by you not being able to carry out a treat-type task because it hurts too much (e.g. reaching for biscuits/sweets). You need to act immediately as at 4, your son won't understand consequences that occur later. Hope that helps.

Many sympathies, OP, I have a 4 y o DD who is, ahem, "spirited", so I feel your pain. Why is there not an equivalent word to "threenager" for four year olds? As that is sometimes what I feel DD has turned into....

We are currently having battles particularly around bad behaviour and table manners: I do appreciate what is and isn't a reasonable expectation for 4 year olds, but if DD is in a difficult mood she will e.g. deliberately mess about/drop/throw food/put it in her drink/make a mess when she knows perfectly well this is not on. (Similar with bad behaviour at bedtimes.) We are pretty firm with her but she is the type of child who reacts to 1,2,3 sanctions by upping the undesirable behaviour, which is very irritating. We still don't give in but I feel like I am in constant negative/disciplinary mummy mode which is draining for me and alienating for her. Many of the suggestions on this thread sound very useful so I will take a look through these too: I just wish I wasn't having to be so constantly reinforcing boundaries!

I found telling dd to join in was the worse thing to do. It seriously increases anxiety - I've read it's not advisable. She had similar issues to your ds. At parties, she was happy to sit on my knee for much of the party and enjoyed it. She had to leave a dance class when she went up from baby ballet at 4.5/5 and couldn't handle the big jump. So I tried a controlled approach, sit inside the class 20 mins, then following week 15, then 10 and as soon as I got to just drop and run, she couldn't handle it. Aged 6, she returned and is now 8 and still going. We had the same issues at school drop off and before that at nursery.

With regard to punishment, I wouldn't advocate making him go to his room. That will be really scary and could damage him emotionally. I tried it with dd and it's clearly painful but didn't follow through. I used the step and put her back on it constantly and restarted the timer. She hated it and I didn't like it much either. Sticker charts are brilliant. Choose a few things you would like to change. Nothing big. Start with 2 warnings. Once he's got x number of stickers, he can get a treat or go and buy something. A sort of pocket money earning system. With dd, I have at times, done "time in". Where she's been so awful we've gone to her room and I've sat on the bed. She can shout, scream and get it out of her system. I will stay with her until her big, scary emotions go away. The only thing I won't do is be hit. I told her that's what I would do in advance and stood just outside the door if she did. However with 2 children, this is much harder.

Coffeeplease thank you for your lovely message. I just get so annoyed at myself because I feel like I know what I should be doing but in the moment always end up being too emotional and doing something completely different. It's funny because me and DS are exactly the same!

Wayfarers - I think the word is 'fournado'

Fournado! Excellent, that is definitely my DD

Ha this is me with my two year old son. He has an older sister 4 and I feel like its all about him as he's soo naughty. Just drink wine it will be OK x

OP have you heard of PDA? I hadn't until a few months ago but my son is 8 and has always had problems fitting in and doing what he is supposed to be doing. When I read up on it I thought yes that is him. Pathological Demand Avoidance. He can't go to after school type set activities he can't cope with their expectations. It seems it's an anxiety based condition where the child or adult has a desperate need to be in control. My son isn't aggressive but he's very arsey if things aren't how he wants them, he struggles at school and they make a lot of special allowances for him. I'm waiting for an assessment of some kinds of his needs. He's intelligent and loving but has to be handled a certain way to keep his emotions steady. Worth looking into x x x

toobusy
PDA is now seen by the National Autisitc Society as a behaviour profile of ASD.
here
It's so hard for parents to have their children diagnosed with PDA as a standalone disorder as so many paediatricians and counties simply won't recognise it at all.
We have a diagnosis of ASD with traits no avoidance and that's a really good fit for our child......and much easier than asking for a PDA assessment.

My advice would be to seek professional guidance if he really has trashed the door like that. I think there may be other issues. I speak as someone with an ADHD kid who even at his worst didn't manage a full room trash more than once or twice.

Triple P parenting programme might be a softer alternative than 1-2-3 Magic here.

Also op try the zero demands style....where you reduce demands made on your child to as near to zero as possible.
There are a list of ways of getting them to do things without making it a demand. I'll try to find it.

I would try to reduce the amount of structured time dependent activities you do. If getting ready and out the house is so stressful that it isn't worth it, then don't do it.

Kick boxing sounds lovely but having a childhood filled with stress, anxiety and fighting really won't be for either of you.

Separation anxiety is certainly a very real problem and the child can't control when it strikes or how powerfully it grips them. Try to remember that the child's confidence and happiness is far more important than their engagement in any one given activity.

Finally OP, cut yourself some slack! Just because you know how you SHOULD respond in a tight situation, doesn't mean you always CAN. You are allowed a bad day as much as your DS is. The main advantage you have over your DC is the ability to plan for fewer bad days in the future by controlling your family's environment (eg. in not scheduling so many things that might cause upset).

I had the same problem with my ds and would give in every time for a easier life but I was actually making it harder for myself until I started putting boundaries in place and stood by them no matter how much he played up he soon learnt and life was much easier and no stress from there on but every time he has a wobble say no he will soon adjust x

This little chap needs some ME time just 15 mins where he sits by himself and meditates with soothing music playing near him .he needs to be shown how to do this and he will not sit but every time he gets up in the 15 mins take him back to the same spot .after a week he will cooperate after 2 weeks he will be much calmer no TV at all and no sugar .

Sounds like you re feeling the pressure of being a parent to two preschoolers...and why the heck shouldn't you? It's bloody hard work! I think you need some help though, can you talk to a health visitor or Counsellor as someone suggested earlier? And give yourself a break.

It sounds like you resent him at the very least. It sounds like he needs to do fewer classes and spend more time hugging Mummy on the sofa or running around the park with Mummy. Maybe try and organize it that he gets time with you without his brother. My dd can be clingy but often after a period of clinginess I get completely ignored. I suspect he's just desperate for your attention and he acts up because Mummy shouting is at least Mummy attention. Your house will be a mess for the next sixteen years so the quicker you realise that your dc will untidy quicker than you can tidy, the happier you will be. Don't feel bad, you sound exhausted too x

Sounds a bit like my daughter, she's 5 and a half now and a real handful, starting school was awful. She needs so much more attention and my eldest gets pushed to one side. I have found she has come on a lot better since starting school though, although she still seems so much more emotionally younger than others in her class, she's in yr 1 now and I am starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel!! You will get there eventually, and I am sure are doing an amazing job. Some of them just take longer than others xxx

I am also the exhausted keeper of a 4 year old- 'fournado' is brilliant!

Picking her up from her GPs:

Me: "Come on and get your shoes on"
DD started welling up with tears/rage
Me: "Come on, don't carry on- we need to get your brother"
DD: "I AM GONNA CARRY ON AND CRY AND HIDE UNDER THE TABLE!"

We were 20mins late picking DS1 up from football- 20mins to get her out from under the sodding table all in front of Ex's parents and sister. Then with her crying, screaming and kicking getting her into the car.

Don't be hard on yourself, it's really difficult.

I hate being shouty mum too but find I have less patience when I'm tired. If I do shout I try to make DC understood why I'm shouting and apologise. My 3 yr old has me run ragged too at times but is a little angel at nursery. I figure he is testing boundaries, trying to figure out the world etc at home combined with fact that behaviour deteriorates when he's tired / hungry