Humiliated and so angry at 4 year old

[hadenough7]

I'm so angry and exhausted and really need some perspective on whether I'm being unreasonable. 4 year old is sweet and lovely at times but very demanding and needs constant attention. He has to be asked to do everything 10 times. He's very impulsive and does things he knows he's not supposed to, mostly without thinking then regrets it I think. He makes a mess everywhere. I can't get anything done all he says is mummy mummy mummy all day long. He asks for snacks every 5 minutes. I'm worn out and snappy. Today I really haven't been very nice at all. We were going to a class we do regularly. I told him we were going, all fine in the car, got there and got changed, played with his friends in the waiting room. Times to go in and he starts crying and clinging to me. I tried to encourage him but he refused to go in. Class started without him. I had his younger brother toddling around and said come on everyone's waiting, we don't have time for this. He started really crying and carrying on. I started to get really annoyed as I felt like he'd waited until we'd all gone to all the effort of getting him here and then chose to kick off in front of everyone. The teacher said he's got really bad separation anxiety but has he? Or is he just being a pain in the arse? I just can't see anything clearly anymore I feel so mad at him because life is a constant struggle, his brother gets ignored and I just feel like I'm failing him and failing at life in general. He is just such hard work. Ended up leaving class in a massive tantrum with everyone looking. He's already tried to bite me in the supermarket and completely ignored me in the park when I told him to come. I just look stupid and end up shouting and I hate being a shouty parent. I just want to bring out the best in him like his amazing pre-school teachers but I honestly think I bring out the worst in him.

[Flowersinyourhair]

I agree with others we calming down with the anger and humiliation. I think you need to put a bit of perspective on it. It was a class for 4 year olds. He didn't want to do it. It's not the end of the world and you're not the first parent in that position. I'd have a big long talk with him about next week.
Then I'd go shopping with him and choose a Lego set he really wants. Tell him he gets one piece of Lego every time he behaves well (you can discuss what that will look like). Each time you're going anywhere remind him of this and tell him how great this kit will be when it's complete.

[KatieHaslam22]

This is something you would be best to bring up with his health visitor, they have heard all the problems under the sun and will have the best advice on how to control or tackle the problem. It may be difficult to get an actual diagnosis for autism or any other behavioural condition until he is over 5, but she may be able to offer advice on techniques to help curb this behaviour and offer more support to you. If you arent at the point of asking his health visitor just yet then ask at nursery because they may have noticed the same issues and it's best for everyone involved with his care to be on the same page with the way they deal with it, if they haven't brought this behaviour to you then they must be managing it effectively.

[annfield62]

Op my heart goes out to you. I know it's hard but have you tried praising his good behaviour and if it's possible ignoring his bad behaviour. Have you asked for advice from his nursery or school. Your not failing, your doing your best and trying to find a way of doing it better.

[bluebellsparklypants]

Must be very hard juggling the two,
Please don't think I'm digging or anything at you but just love him the less you react in anger hopefully the situation will stay calm or at least calm quickly. He is only young and just needs guidance with his emotions still, is 1-1 time possible?

[dramaticpenguin]

My youngest is a summer born boy so was just 4 when he started at the school I work at and went absolutely crazy every morning when I had to leave him in class, and if I ever had to be in his class he would attach himself then start crying immediately that he realised I was only there for a short while. At one point he threw his shoes at my line manager! It took alot of love and patience from me and the staff AND alot of walking away and leaving him to get on with it but it did improve, especially when we made a few changes, someone else takes him to class from breakfast club, I avoided him in the day for the first year etc. He's in year 1 now and mostly fine. It will get better, but takes alot of deep breathing and support from others. The thrive approach really helps with anxious children, if your preschool has someone trained, you could ask them for some strategy suggestions. Good luck x

[janex1]

My DS is now 19 I remember what he was like at that age- very shy but very stubborn and always wanting to be with me and his baby sister. I cut back on the things and did more low key stuff like library visits which he loved.I learned to meet him half way on issues if not we could sometimes have a stalemate that could last for hours. Everytime we passed the local shop he would ask for sweets so we created "Friday sweets" which we stuck to for years. He actually enjoyed that type of boundary. That natural stubbornness will probably stand him in good stead in the future as he will probably be a determined person in general. Stick with is - I definitely did my fair share of shouting but realised that it never had a positive effect.

[user1484578224]

OP......little boy sounds adorable. They can be bloody hard work. Sometimes tired/got a virus whatever. Maybe that all it is.
Do you ever double up with another parent and that way you could get a break say alternate Saturday mornings.

[mumindoghouse]

Feel for you.
4 is hard. Keeping your attention away from DC2?
Have you tried reward charts with lots of brightly coloured stickers?
Put a timer to ping at snack time.
Re the activity today had similar with DS2 over swimming. He'd been going fine then really big fuss refusal etc. In hindsight should have just taken him out but tried to get him to continue. After we moved and it took a while to return to the swimming. By then he was keen and progressed really fast. Maybe don't force it if he's having off day.
And remember this too will pass!

[Holldstock1]

OP, I am absolutely not saying your DS has ASD or anything like that, but I would just like to clarify about what you've said re ASD mainly because alot of people don't understand about it, or what to look out for.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I have to just say about this because I think its too important not to. There are alot of children who miss out on help because people don't recognise the issues and many desperate parents who think they are 'bad parents' because they don't understand why their child is behaving like that.

Alot of people have quite set and simplistic ideas of what they think ASD looks like i.e. lack of empathy, emotion etc. It really depends on what type of ASD a child has. Someone with classic autism will behave very differently from a child with say Aspergers or ADHD. And, it also is dependant on how far along (the degree) the spectrum that child is. Also a child may well have more than one type, so will exhibit different combined aspects of each. My youngest was eventually diagnosed with DAMP, a completely made up term recognised only in Sweden and a couple of places in UK (its basically a good way for authorities to avoid doing anything to help the parents and they don't get a statement). DAMP (Deficit Attention Motor Perception) with aspects of ADHD and Dyspraxia - so he wasn't bad enough or straight forward enough to warrant a diagnosis of one or the other.

We didn't know what we were looking at before he was diagnosed because he didn't fit in with what we thought ASD was. My son is extremely intelligent (even from an early age), extremely imaginative, has excellent knowledge, debating and language skills (beyond his age - which was especially noticeable when comparing to other children when he was in pre-school/Foundation stage), understood and seemed to empathize with and sensitive to the feelings of others, could focus and be absorbed with a toy, game or project he was interested in. But would have extremes of overwhelming emotion that he just couldn't handle which meant that he had terrible extremes of behaviour, mood swings etc, as well as short term memory issues and some physical motor things which we didn't notice or understand until we knew what we were dealing with. Would you think that a Pre-School/Foundation child who could talk knowledgeably about life in WWII France, but consistently didn't bring the hat and the toy you asked him to fetch from his room multiple times and always ended up doing something else, as a child who is ignoring, defying, being rude to you etc etc? Or would you think by saying you wanted a hat and a toy his short term memory wasn't processing the words in the right way and one or both of the objects were 'disappearing' by the time he got to his room??? ASD doesn't always look like you think.

I say this as my son wasn't diagnosed until he was in Year 1 of Primary. And I also think he only got picked up on because his class teacher was the SENCO and it was in her best interests to get him, and the other boy in her class who was the same diagnosed. We had a bad experience with his first primary school. Alot of the time schools do not want to really know because it ends up costing them money if a child is diagnosed, even if they aren't statemented. We spent the first few years up to that point thinking we were bad parents who just couldn't handle what was going on. Getting that diagnosis was terrible - it felt like we were almost grieving for him, but it also gave us a massive sense of relief- we weren't bad parents and we weren't going crazy. I always think knowledge is power. It can only help to know what you are dealing with.

Sorry to say all this on this thread. And OP I'm definitely not saying your son is on autistic spectrum.

[Verbena37]

I don't think DS has ASD. I might be wrong in my assumptions but he is very loving and affectionate and also empathetic, he recognises when I'm sad and tries to make me feel better. He also has an amazing imagination and tells lots of weird stories and does lots of role play

So does my DS but he has high functioning ASD.
Role playing is a key feature of PDA in particular....where the child role plays either animals or other people to make themselves fit in.
I'm not suggesting your DS has ASD, but I just wanted to quash your idea of what ASD is. It's obviously very different in every child but being empathetic, being loving and role playing certainly doesn't mean they cannot also be autistic.

[Aurora87]

It's not always the case, you could be talking about my son and he is currently being assessed for ADHD and atypical ASD. 'Classic' autism for want of a better phrase isn't the only type of autism. x

[thenovice]

I totally sympathise with how humiliating it feels, but I can offer some encouragement. I have one just like this. DD2 is 5 and still has the meltdowns when she is taken to classes/parties or indeed randomly at any time. It always feels so public and other mums look so disapprovingly. She has also had severe sleep problems and has been unable to "self-settle" at night. I was told it was separation anxiety and developmental delay (in all other areas such as school work she is top). She has now got through that stage and we are in the "terrible twos". It is much easier to deal with now that I understand that it is a developmental delay and we are passing through stages, just a bit later than most people. Since I know she is behaving like a 2 year-old, I can deal with her as a 2 year old without getting so wound up. This too will pass Good luck.

[hadenough7]

Ha yes exercise can feel like a chore but gives me more energy and makes me feel more positive I think. I do really enjoy yoga. I have a partner but no other family nearby. I don't think DS has ASD. I might be wrong in my assumptions but he is very loving and affectionate and also empathetic, he recognises when I'm sad and tries to make me feel better. He also has an amazing imagination and tells lots of weird stories and does lots of role play. I always associate ASD with being quite literal and factual, or is that not always the case?

[user1484578224]

sorry OP.....is there a wider network....partner, relatives friends? It doesn't just have to be Mummy

[user1484578224]

dear hadenough "I'm trying to up my exercise" sounds like a chore. Go for a facial or something nice.

[allwomanR]

I can totally sympathise, my 3.5yo DS is having a similar time of it to coincide with DS2 arrival. I've tried to switch the script so positive reinforcement, distraction to get him to stop doing things and clearer picture of what's going on, so always 'first this activity today then this' and asking him to repeat what I asked rather than saying it again. If I want him to listen I ensure I have eye contact first (look at mummy, then request) and often set up as clearly as I can do for example to get him to tidy up before bedtime hour on CBeebies I will ask him, then put CBeebies on but pause it and ask him what I've asked him to do. Very clear message of you don't get one without first the other, doesn't always work, and trying not to shout the 15th time you repeat yourself is very hard! we also choose a cuddly to take to nursery, so he has something familiar, and he will bring a toy home from the farm to take back each week so he knows he's going back as usual as 'security' for his routine
Make sure you get some time out too, and hope it passes soon x

[Jenny70]

Fours are a hard age... (bugger the terrible twos, we call them the F&%^ing fours).

My youngest was particularly bad - we found more food and more sleep improved his behaviour enormously... he needed to graze constantly, and nap. Otherwise he was a horrid child!

[quizqueen]

He's also jealous, I expect, if you have a younger one and is seeking your attention more because of that. Nothing new here!! Give him special attention when the toddler is asleep or when the dad is around.

[quizqueen]

If you have to ask him to do things ten times it's usually because he knows you don't mean it the first time. If he asks for snacks every five minutes, is it because you give them to him? All children will try it on. It's part of growing up and pretty normal behaviour. So is making a mess everywhere. Just get a few toys out and help him put them away before moving on to play with other things and get down and play with him too at his level. If he won't come when called in the park, go up to him and take his hand and tell him calmly that you are going home because he can't be trusted to do as he had been asked and it's very important to behave sensibly when out and about and listen to mummy. Lots of children go through biting phases, I'm afraid, they do grow out it... maybe a sticker chart for that ( for not biting, that is!!!) My youngest daughter had to be 'peeled' off me when I left her at playschool ( the elder one used to just waltz in by herself; every child is different) and the teacher said to me , 'Just go'. She stopped crying as soon as I was out to sight and had a great time. It's all a performance for the parents. Just let it wash over you and not get it get you down as much as possible. Everyone's child behaves badly at some time. One day they will leave home and you will cry!!

[Aurora87]

Go to the GP to rule out underlying causes (autism, ADHD, etc). Some children on the spectrum are able to 'mask' at nursery/school at that age and the behaviours are only, or at least more predominantly apparent at home, often becoming more apparent at school on Year 1 and beyond.

[Goodasgoldilox]

Huge sympathy! It will get better.

Clingy and suddenly frightened to leave you is just a stage. (An exhausting one for you though!) It isn't something you have done wrong. Quite the reverse. He loves and trusts you when he is scared and your very presence makes him feel better. (Remember this when he is a gangley teen with a secret life and worries you can't help with - sigh!) The world is a worrying place for a 4 year old.

There are various ways to tackle it. The best advice I was given was:

1. to cling back! Don't push him away - put keep clinging until he is the one wanting to let go. (I got very clingy where there were interesting things he really wanted to go and see/do)
   
2. Go back a stage and baby him.
   
3. Try to find more things to say 'yes' to and give lots of positive attention in really visible ways that are not exhausting to you or at times you really need space.
   

On the not coming / shouting thing:
Call once. (Don't shout - it is a form of attention and not one you enjoy giving - so avoid it becoming a thing.) If he doesn't come - turn away - become very occupied in something that might be exciting - or give lots of loving attention to his sibling.

Hope this helps - and all the very best. You sound like a great Mum to me.

[WanderingStar1]

My son was like this - he was diagnosed around that time with ASD and later with ADHD but if your DS is good at pre-school and the teachers there haven't said anything then that's probably not an issue for you. Especially as you say he regrets his bad behaviour afterwards. But I wonder if some of the techniques I have used (with some success, depending.....) might be helpful - echoing some PPs suggestions too? I was told that when DS kicks off he is genuinely upset about stuff, and it's better to sit down and say 'I understand you're upset about x, and you don't feel happy. Let's try doing y....' or similar. It is much harder than shouting but can actually really defuse things sometimes. I did also have to have strict boundaries, and I never solved biting, he just outgrew it . I am still that fishwife outside the school gates on regular occasions, you are not alone - but forcing yourself to take the calm approach can sometimes really pay dividends (however much it goes against how you really feel inside). Good luck .

[Masketti]

This is a great course if they run one in your area

www.triplep.net/glo-en/home/

[hadenough7]

To those who've suggested lovebombing, I have it already so will put that next on my list after my current book! I agree with the theory and I think it will definitely be helpful for my DS. I can see that he craves lots of love and attention and needs more 1 on 1 time.

[hadenough7]

I don't really get a break or time off except in the evenings after they're asleep. I've started trying to up my exercise and go to yoga classes in the evenings so I think that will help my overall mood and wellbeing.