Humiliated and so angry at 4 year old

[hadenough7]

I'm so angry and exhausted and really need some perspective on whether I'm being unreasonable. 4 year old is sweet and lovely at times but very demanding and needs constant attention. He has to be asked to do everything 10 times. He's very impulsive and does things he knows he's not supposed to, mostly without thinking then regrets it I think. He makes a mess everywhere. I can't get anything done all he says is mummy mummy mummy all day long. He asks for snacks every 5 minutes. I'm worn out and snappy. Today I really haven't been very nice at all. We were going to a class we do regularly. I told him we were going, all fine in the car, got there and got changed, played with his friends in the waiting room. Times to go in and he starts crying and clinging to me. I tried to encourage him but he refused to go in. Class started without him. I had his younger brother toddling around and said come on everyone's waiting, we don't have time for this. He started really crying and carrying on. I started to get really annoyed as I felt like he'd waited until we'd all gone to all the effort of getting him here and then chose to kick off in front of everyone. The teacher said he's got really bad separation anxiety but has he? Or is he just being a pain in the arse? I just can't see anything clearly anymore I feel so mad at him because life is a constant struggle, his brother gets ignored and I just feel like I'm failing him and failing at life in general. He is just such hard work. Ended up leaving class in a massive tantrum with everyone looking. He's already tried to bite me in the supermarket and completely ignored me in the park when I told him to come. I just look stupid and end up shouting and I hate being a shouty parent. I just want to bring out the best in him like his amazing pre-school teachers but I honestly think I bring out the worst in him.

[user1484578224]

OP try and do something nice for yourself.

[BirdInTheRoom]

My now 7 year old was like this when he was 4 - I found him so incredibly demanding and hard work. I have had to be very strict, and set very clear boundaries and consequences. It has been a battle of wills at times and so tiring, but now he is older my hard graft with him seems to have paid off (for now!) and he is delightful!

With the snack thing I get where you are coming from but I think a lot of the time, children are just hungry all the time as they're growing. If they are hungry, behaviour will be worse. Make meals high in protein and try & anticipate hunger. I will often bring meal times forward so that my kids eat properly and then I am less worried about snacking afterwards - and they are less likely to pester for food.

[ProfAnnieT]

Have you tried lovebombing?

<a class="break-all" href="//www.amazon.co.uk/When-Your-Kids-Push-Buttons/dp/0749925248?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">When Your Kids Push Your Buttons (And What To Do About It) was also a helpful book for me.

[mangatemum]

Absolutely agree with the lovebombing. I had a very strained relationship with my daughter and time spent with her was not much fun for either of us. Try to ignore the bad behaviour, difficult I know but really praising him and spending a set, allocated time with him on his own, on a regular basis can really help. My mum (74!) swears by the 'let's talk about what we did today' chat, snuggled up in bed. Ask your son what he would like to do with you rather than planning it yourself. Often it's something really simple like reading a favourite book or doing a jigsaw. Let him know that this is his special time with you. Good luck with the hugs and kisses (even if you feel you want to scream)!

[Luggage16]

It sounds like you've had a really hard day. I would say it all could be normal 4 year old behaviour but if you have other concerns then it could be worth being aware of the symptoms of ASD etc. My son was very much like this at 4 and is now 6 an awaiting ADOS assessment and the paed is pretty sure he is on the autistic spectrum. I think you would have an inkling if there were additional needs going on though.

[Luggage16]

lovebombing and how to talk book both great too! I've used both a lot with both of my children.

[Picoloangel]

I have read "1 2 3 Magic" and that was v good but I found a book called something like 'Ten Days to a Less Defiant Child" v good and v helpful. My DD wasn't defiant as such but somehow a lot of it made sense.

keep on keeping on OP

[PuffinDodger]

Good post at 20.20 Simonelac

[PuffinDodger]

Sorry 20.25

[SpoofersAreLosers]

One thing I found really useful was when my friend pointed out that it is hard for kids to hear they have to behave because of other people (in our case it was bedtime clinginess when we had guests). So instead of saying "I need to go and cook for guests now" which caused meltdown I tried saying "I need to go downstairs because I'm really hungry and want to eat". Miraculously it worked. What a revelation

That's an interesting obvservatiin. I found my kids often responded better to me saying I wanted to do things for myself rather than telling them they should want to do it. For example if I told them they needed some exercise and would enjoy a walk they would more likely moan than if I said I want to go for a walk . Iyswim. Maybe they could relate to it better.

[Reebs123]

I totally understand. My DD1 was the same. Mummy mummy all day long & the crying & the whinging. I'm surprised I didn't lose it. Can someone give you a break? It's hard being with a child 24 hrs a day especially if they are so demanding. My family didn't understand wth their perfect babies. Even my hub didn't. Unfortunately DD2 is the same. DD1 grew out of it around 5 yrs of age.

[Ohyesiam]

Look up Hand in Hand Parenting, they run courses that have made my life and household SO much easier and happier.

[hadenough7]

I don't really get a break or time off except in the evenings after they're asleep. I've started trying to up my exercise and go to yoga classes in the evenings so I think that will help my overall mood and wellbeing.

[hadenough7]

To those who've suggested lovebombing, I have it already so will put that next on my list after my current book! I agree with the theory and I think it will definitely be helpful for my DS. I can see that he craves lots of love and attention and needs more 1 on 1 time.

[Masketti]

This is a great course if they run one in your area

www.triplep.net/glo-en/home/

[WanderingStar1]

My son was like this - he was diagnosed around that time with ASD and later with ADHD but if your DS is good at pre-school and the teachers there haven't said anything then that's probably not an issue for you. Especially as you say he regrets his bad behaviour afterwards. But I wonder if some of the techniques I have used (with some success, depending.....) might be helpful - echoing some PPs suggestions too? I was told that when DS kicks off he is genuinely upset about stuff, and it's better to sit down and say 'I understand you're upset about x, and you don't feel happy. Let's try doing y....' or similar. It is much harder than shouting but can actually really defuse things sometimes. I did also have to have strict boundaries, and I never solved biting, he just outgrew it . I am still that fishwife outside the school gates on regular occasions, you are not alone - but forcing yourself to take the calm approach can sometimes really pay dividends (however much it goes against how you really feel inside). Good luck .

[Goodasgoldilox]

Huge sympathy! It will get better.

Clingy and suddenly frightened to leave you is just a stage. (An exhausting one for you though!) It isn't something you have done wrong. Quite the reverse. He loves and trusts you when he is scared and your very presence makes him feel better. (Remember this when he is a gangley teen with a secret life and worries you can't help with - sigh!) The world is a worrying place for a 4 year old.

There are various ways to tackle it. The best advice I was given was:

1. to cling back! Don't push him away - put keep clinging until he is the one wanting to let go. (I got very clingy where there were interesting things he really wanted to go and see/do)
   
2. Go back a stage and baby him.
   
3. Try to find more things to say 'yes' to and give lots of positive attention in really visible ways that are not exhausting to you or at times you really need space.
   

On the not coming / shouting thing:
Call once. (Don't shout - it is a form of attention and not one you enjoy giving - so avoid it becoming a thing.) If he doesn't come - turn away - become very occupied in something that might be exciting - or give lots of loving attention to his sibling.

Hope this helps - and all the very best. You sound like a great Mum to me.

[Aurora87]

Go to the GP to rule out underlying causes (autism, ADHD, etc). Some children on the spectrum are able to 'mask' at nursery/school at that age and the behaviours are only, or at least more predominantly apparent at home, often becoming more apparent at school on Year 1 and beyond.

[quizqueen]

If you have to ask him to do things ten times it's usually because he knows you don't mean it the first time. If he asks for snacks every five minutes, is it because you give them to him? All children will try it on. It's part of growing up and pretty normal behaviour. So is making a mess everywhere. Just get a few toys out and help him put them away before moving on to play with other things and get down and play with him too at his level. If he won't come when called in the park, go up to him and take his hand and tell him calmly that you are going home because he can't be trusted to do as he had been asked and it's very important to behave sensibly when out and about and listen to mummy. Lots of children go through biting phases, I'm afraid, they do grow out it... maybe a sticker chart for that ( for not biting, that is!!!) My youngest daughter had to be 'peeled' off me when I left her at playschool ( the elder one used to just waltz in by herself; every child is different) and the teacher said to me , 'Just go'. She stopped crying as soon as I was out to sight and had a great time. It's all a performance for the parents. Just let it wash over you and not get it get you down as much as possible. Everyone's child behaves badly at some time. One day they will leave home and you will cry!!

[quizqueen]

He's also jealous, I expect, if you have a younger one and is seeking your attention more because of that. Nothing new here!! Give him special attention when the toddler is asleep or when the dad is around.

[Jenny70]

Fours are a hard age... (bugger the terrible twos, we call them the F&%^ing fours).

My youngest was particularly bad - we found more food and more sleep improved his behaviour enormously... he needed to graze constantly, and nap. Otherwise he was a horrid child!

[allwomanR]

I can totally sympathise, my 3.5yo DS is having a similar time of it to coincide with DS2 arrival. I've tried to switch the script so positive reinforcement, distraction to get him to stop doing things and clearer picture of what's going on, so always 'first this activity today then this' and asking him to repeat what I asked rather than saying it again. If I want him to listen I ensure I have eye contact first (look at mummy, then request) and often set up as clearly as I can do for example to get him to tidy up before bedtime hour on CBeebies I will ask him, then put CBeebies on but pause it and ask him what I've asked him to do. Very clear message of you don't get one without first the other, doesn't always work, and trying not to shout the 15th time you repeat yourself is very hard! we also choose a cuddly to take to nursery, so he has something familiar, and he will bring a toy home from the farm to take back each week so he knows he's going back as usual as 'security' for his routine
Make sure you get some time out too, and hope it passes soon x

[user1484578224]

dear hadenough "I'm trying to up my exercise" sounds like a chore. Go for a facial or something nice.

[user1484578224]

sorry OP.....is there a wider network....partner, relatives friends? It doesn't just have to be Mummy

[hadenough7]

Ha yes exercise can feel like a chore but gives me more energy and makes me feel more positive I think. I do really enjoy yoga. I have a partner but no other family nearby. I don't think DS has ASD. I might be wrong in my assumptions but he is very loving and affectionate and also empathetic, he recognises when I'm sad and tries to make me feel better. He also has an amazing imagination and tells lots of weird stories and does lots of role play. I always associate ASD with being quite literal and factual, or is that not always the case?