Humiliated and so angry at 4 year old

[hadenough7]

I'm so angry and exhausted and really need some perspective on whether I'm being unreasonable. 4 year old is sweet and lovely at times but very demanding and needs constant attention. He has to be asked to do everything 10 times. He's very impulsive and does things he knows he's not supposed to, mostly without thinking then regrets it I think. He makes a mess everywhere. I can't get anything done all he says is mummy mummy mummy all day long. He asks for snacks every 5 minutes. I'm worn out and snappy. Today I really haven't been very nice at all. We were going to a class we do regularly. I told him we were going, all fine in the car, got there and got changed, played with his friends in the waiting room. Times to go in and he starts crying and clinging to me. I tried to encourage him but he refused to go in. Class started without him. I had his younger brother toddling around and said come on everyone's waiting, we don't have time for this. He started really crying and carrying on. I started to get really annoyed as I felt like he'd waited until we'd all gone to all the effort of getting him here and then chose to kick off in front of everyone. The teacher said he's got really bad separation anxiety but has he? Or is he just being a pain in the arse? I just can't see anything clearly anymore I feel so mad at him because life is a constant struggle, his brother gets ignored and I just feel like I'm failing him and failing at life in general. He is just such hard work. Ended up leaving class in a massive tantrum with everyone looking. He's already tried to bite me in the supermarket and completely ignored me in the park when I told him to come. I just look stupid and end up shouting and I hate being a shouty parent. I just want to bring out the best in him like his amazing pre-school teachers but I honestly think I bring out the worst in him.

[FruitCider]

OP I hear you loud and clear...

I was in a supermarket yesterday, my child said "mummy can we look at the toys" "yes in a minute darling". Repeat times 40. I'm not kidding. I snapped in the end and said "oh shut up for gods sake you are really annoying me!" Cue hysterical crying in the middle of the floor...

It's really hard, we all have bad moments. But biologically speaking they are still babies at this age. Their brain has a massive amount of developing to do. Just remember "this too shall past".

[Lweji]

I was in a supermarket yesterday, my child said "mummy can we look at the toys" "yes in a minute darling". Repeat times 40

You were clearly lying. Don't make promises you don't keep. No wonder there was a tantrum.

[hadenough7]

You are all being really sweet it's making me a bit emotional.. doesn't take much in this state. I've been a rubbish mum today, I know I have, but I'm going to do better tomorrow. I'm going to read this through and make notes and come up with a plan. I've definitely been expecting too much of him and been way to hard on him. I need to be kinder and keep my own emotions in check and not use him to offload on. He asleep now and was so sweet and so good at bedtime. I really need to do better I don't want another day like today, ever.

[hadenough7]

DeadGood unfortunately the baby signing mum sounds a lot like me. I really handled it badly today. & actually looking back I think I'm humiliated due to my own behaviour more than his. I told him if he didn't join in then we'd have to go home and if we went home there would be no Lego. He didn't join in then I tried to leave and he made a scene about going. I took it all personally and was mad at him for wasting my time and causing a scene. It all went so wrong I'm not proud.

[Misty9]

We all have rubbish mum days sometimes. I certainly do. The important thing is to apologise when we behave badly and, as you say, tomorrow is another day.

Ds, 5, was also very reluctant to do group activities and we quit mini kickers halfway through the term when he was 4 as he just wasn't enjoying it and spending half the time crying. Just recently he is coming out of himself and particularly loving school - so there is hope! The biting I would come down like a ton of bricks on personally, but it sounds like he was very angry. We've had some success with reading books about emotions with ds. Teeth are not for biting was a great board book when he was younger. I also found it hard to remember how young ds still was when his baby sister came along. They suddenly seem so grown up!

[FurryGiraffe]

Don't beat yourself up- we all have bad days.

Another thought which I don't think has been touched on- how's his sleep? I have a nearly four year old with a tendency to be very clingy- new situations (i.e. parties) he is glued to me and even his gym class that he's been going to for more than two years we regularly have 'I don't want to go'. With mine there is a definite correlation between clingy and stroppy behaviour and how tired he is. We had months of him being dreadful after DS2 was born, as he went through a massive sleep regression and was waking endlessly at night. Now he's sleeping through again he's a much happier, much less stroppy child and battles about stuff are rare.

[hadenough7]

Sleeping well at the moment but tiredness does definitely have a big impact on his behaviour

[zeeboo]

He is FOUR.

[missymayhemsmum]

Oh dear, he's being 4. Which is flipping annoying. I think lots of 4 year olds (especially boys) flip between a clingy toddler and a teenage tantrum with moments of big boy in between.
Ok, here's my checklist as to whether you have a problem child or just a phase.
Check. Sleep (enough of. Tired children and tired parents = day from hell) Food and exercise- (4 year old boys need to run!) Attention. Is he getting more attention by being good than being a pain? Are you praising him every time he is lovely? Thanking him when he does as he is asked? Do you give him attention when he isn't going 'mummy mummy mummy' or is that the only way to get your attention? Remember, for a 4 year old, any attention (even you screaming at him) is better than none.
Try to take a break (can you ship him off to Dad/grandma/uncle for a day) to refresh and start again.
Just a thought, is he behaving like atoddler because your littlest is getting more attention from you? Start noticing him and praising him for being a 'big brother'

[Mrscog]

Op you've had loads of great advice, I haven't got anything to add except , I have been exactly where you are with my DS1 - the mummy, mummy, mummy, not playing on his own, being socially anxious etc etc - I saw so much I recognised from your post. It felt shit so many times, shit and exhausting, but it will get better, DS1 is 5 now and is mostly a delight, I've had to learn so much about how to handle him - I've learnt he's naturally anxious, reserved and doesn't respond to all the usual parenting techniques (time outs/sticker charts etc etc). We've slowly found our own way and he's a genuine delight how, enjoying school and making friends. The dark days are diminishing and he makes my heart sing most of the time now (3.5-4.5 it was probably only nice 40-50% of the time).

Hang in there, and try and get some time to yourself - it really helps.

[iamapixiebutnotaniceone]

I've heard the phrase 'love bombing' a couple of times recently. I am in a similar situation finding things difficult with my 6yo and worrying about not giving my younger daughters all of the attention they need. Being a parent is HARD, multiple young children are particularly challenging! The last couple of weeks I have put everything else on the back burner and am really concentrating on just loving them and really knowing them more. I have to say it has helped, we are all much more relaxed and I haven't had to forfeit saying no where I have needed to if that makes sense x

[hadenough7]

Can I ask opinions on what is an appropriate consequence for bad behaviour? Timeout in DS's room or on the step don't work as he just comes out/off. I know the advice is to keep returning him and eventually he will stay but we really have tried and tried and he doesn't. It just feels ridiculous going back and forth all the time. Sometimes we'll take a toy away but he doesn't seem to bothered. I think the only thing that would bother him is losing his Lego. Is there anything else that might work?

[BoffinMum]

The goal is to get your child listening to instructions without arguments. Sanctions need to be immediate, predictable, fair and consistent or he will get confused and you will come across as ineffectual.

You have a family meeting. You explain that if he doesn't do as he is told the first time you ask him to do something, he will be on a one. The second time he does not do as he is told, he will be on a two. The third time, that's a three and he goes to his room for one minute every year of his age, so four minutes. He can do what he likes in there, but it's for four minutes. He will understand this. He might not like it, but he will understand it.

You have to be slightly mean and stand outside his room and possibly even hold the door handle for this to work, if he's an habitual escapee. But in return you need to keep to the four minutes to the absolute second. And be completely consistent. No second chances on any of the counts, no long gaps between the counts, only apply them to the behaviour of a reasonable time frame, which at that age is only about 10-20 minutes. This is within what a child can control.

After a few times he will realise you mean business, he will understand what the rules are, and he will start to listen to instructions and do as he is told. You will have sufficient authority.

You will find after a few weeks you rarely get past a one. And you both get on a lot better. And he starts to understand why adults have rules and expectations for things.

He might argue, if he does, you put him on the next number up. He might trash his room, in which case you tell him quietly when he comes out that it's a shame his nice room is a mess, and if he comes and asks you nicely later you might help him tidy it up, otherwise he will have to put up with it being trashed and not being able to find his toys. Otherwise, just let him learn you mean business and he is expected to follow any reasonable instruction you give him.

I usually couple this training with telling kids that if somebody is telling them to do something unsafe or really strange they have the right to think it through and tell another adult. You don't want unthinking compliance, this is about parental authority on the things that matter.

It also works in cars, by the way, except here you pull over, stop the car, and all sit still for the required minutes. You point out that every time you have to so this, the journey will get longer and longer. They soon learn.

None of this is particularly easy for the parents, it takes work, but once you've done it you save a lot of energy and angst that you are probably currently spending on the daily fights and battles.

[MrsTwix]

You say you feel humiliated, I think it's worth wondering why. Do you think the other parents were judging you? Do you think they all have perfect children and never ever get stresssed out? Try and think that it's more likely that they think "thank god it's not mine today".

You also keep saying you aren't a good mummy. I can assure you that anyone who is worried that they aren't a good mummy probably is, because the bad parents are those that don't care. Try saying I had a bad day instead of I was a bad mum.

[liz70]

OP, rest assured that everybody with children has been that parent with that child, kicking off and screaming while you inwardly die of shame. I've two older DDs that are 16 months apart in age, in their teens now, plus a 7 year old DD3, so I know the "joy" of dealing with two small children. Don't be too hard on yourself; it really is tough. I spent a fair few frazzled years with DDs 1 and 2 when they were small myself.

I agree with others that 4 is too young for a formal class. DD3 has only recently started karate classes; her class won't even take children below 6.

Lots of good advice on this thread, just keep telling yourself, it won't last forever.

[ohforfoxsake]

I do feel for you. Don't be hard on yourself, you're learning on the job and it's a very, very hard job.

4 year olds love attention. Any attention is good attention to them. Ignoring bad behaviour (unless it's hurting or destructive) is very powerful. You have to balance this with paying lots of attention to good behaviour.

Pick your battles. My favourite mantra (along with 'today is a new day'). Don't get hung up on things. Decide what are your 'musts' (kindness and manners for me). I would happily step over DS2 when having a tantrum. Lots of love and cuddles afterwards.

One thing I struggled with was 3 yo DS1 biting. The solution turned out to be me spending 20 minutes a day 1:1. (DS2 was born and I was PG with Dd1) it worked within days and was an absolute sanity saver.

You have to model good behaviour. You have the be the person you want them to be.

It's really fucking hard. My biting 3 to is a lovely 15 yo now. You are in the thick of it. Look after yourself and show yourself some compassion. Who cares what anyone else thinks? They are having a shit time too. It's not pity in their eyes, it's probably empathy. They are thinking 'thank fuck it's not mine this time'.

Put CBeebies on, lie down. Tomorrow's another day. We'll do better tomorrow.

[Justanothernameonthepage]

Hope you're feeling better. My DS won't stay on the naughty step either. I've found the best way is firmly telling him I don't play with people who bite/hit and then leaving him to it. He normally tears up wanting a cuddle, so I give him a cuddle and tell him again that I love him but won't play until he says sorry or kisses it better. Then when he does apologize, I make sure to give him 5 mins attention playing a game. But if he's been behaving without any prompting, I play with him and praise his attention. If we're out, we go outside to cool down and cuddle, then if it happens again we go home.

[hadenough7]

Justanother my DS sounds like yours. He does things on impulse but then I think he genuinely feels bad for it. When I tell him off he gets really upset and immediately wants cuddling to make him feel better.

[hadenough7]

Boffinmum we really did try at this but it was too traumatic and we just couldn't stick at it. Without holding the door shut DS would leave his room no matter how many times we returned him. When we held the door shut he would be completely hysterical and literally try to break the door down. It's really badly damaged on the inside from him hitting it with things. We stuck at it for a bit despite this thinking he'd give up but he didn't and ultimately it just felt too cruel and wasn't something we were comfortable with.

[Justanothernameonthepage]

It's frustrating isn't it. The not playing with him really cut down on the biting within a week. He still hits but I think a lot of it is him getting overwhelmed/overexcited so I try not to tell him off when it's accidental unless it's with another child. Giving him jobs to do also seems to have helped, although it normally means our days are slower. Oh and he's better behaved on days when we've spent 30mins or more outside. Even if it's just hunting for the gruffalo at the park :)

[hmmmum]

Four is a tough age. It can feel very unrelenting. With my own, I have found age five a lot easier.
Also they definitely do behave better for other people. With their own parent, kids know that the unconditional love is there and they're at their most relaxed (in terms of being happy to let it all out and be themselves).
I wouldn't worry too much about the extra curricular activities at this age. While I'm sure they are great for development, there's no hurry. My dd didn't go to anything at that age as it was such an effort, but now at five and a half she goes to swimming and drama and thrives at both. There'll be enough time for that later, at the moment as others have said he's still a baby in many ways.
As others have said, plan out ways you can set firmer boundaries. Then you'll feel less out of control and calmer. Maybe sit down and think about it after he's gone to bed and plan how you'll deal with certain recurring situations.
It can be exhausting and frustrating being a mum sometimes but you're not the only one who is a shouty mum at times. As others have said we all have our bad days!

[INXS]

HadEnough good on you for making changes.

Mine (understandably) hated being physically made to do anything, such as being made to be in their rooms. Not sure "imprisonment" is a particularly helpful thing for them to learn, either, although it's regularly given as advice for bad behaviour.

I think best thing is to do what Justanother recommends

"I've found the best way is firmly telling him I don't play with people who bite/hit and then leaving him to it. He normally tears up wanting a cuddle, so I give him a cuddle and tell him again that I love him but won't play until he says sorry or kisses it better. Then when he does apologize, I make sure to give him 5 mins attention playing a game. But if he's been behaving without any prompting, I play with him and praise his attention. If we're out, we go outside to cool down and cuddle, then if it happens again we go home."

[HalfShellHero]

Oh wow I could have written this word for word my ds is like this he is also 4 and I feel for my sidelined elder son, massive massive hugs op I too feel the glare of 'shouting mum in the playground ' but if your not you're viewed as too lax,

[YorkieDorkie]

Hi OP, I can relate from the teacher point of view. I have a younger DC so not quite where you are with yours yet. I do however know a lot about young children in a professional capacity. - I still read lots of books about young children to improve my practice and to understand their needs and concerns.

My advice would be to pick up a book. Pick up several. As much as you know your child, if he's you're eldest, you won't know much about children at that age. Knowledge is power. Yes parenting comes "naturally" but we all need help and advice.