Children in the basement and the nanny's boyfriend!

[ElGatodelCanto]

Sorry I had to name change, but would very much appreciate any perspectives on WWYD in this situation.

DD went to a sleepover at a school friend's on Saturday. DH and I have met the parents a few times - they had a drinks party at their house a few months ago and we've been as part of a larger group for dinner there. They have been to our home once, again as part of a larger group.

This family has quite unusual living arrangements in that the DC live and sleep with the nanny in the basement apartment and the parents live in the 3 or 4 floors upstairs. The nanny has been with them a few years I think. She seems lovely and very competent. Many people assume she is the mum I think, as she comes to all assemblies and music recitals, that kind of thing, as well as doing all schooldrop offs and pick ups. I see her around, at the school and sometimes at the gym.

When DD returned from the sleepover she'd had a lovely time and wants to go again. However, she told me that the nanny's "boyfriend" had been there in the evening. In her words, she "saw them kissing" in the kitchen and the boyfriend was "squashing" the nanny against the wall and they were making "loud noises". These are DD's words. She says she doesn't think he stayed the night as he wasn't there in the morning. DD's friend has whispered to DD that this man was not really allowed there. The parents are away a lot and I don't think they were there over the weekend.

DH is livid about this. He says he will not have his daughter exposed to this kind of thing and that this nanny could have let any Tom or Harry in and it's not acceptable. He has now gone on a business trip, but wants me to speak to the mother.

I'm not sure it's my business to speak to the mother as I feel as if I know the nanny better on a day to day basis (I might see her at the gym later). Also if it was just kissing, do I need to say or do anything? I also feel that if the mother is happy for the children to live downstairs with the nanny, it's her business to make sure she knows what's going on.

What would you do - a) nothing b) mention something to the nanny or c) go straight to the mother (this is what DH wants me to do, but I'm not sure I feel comfortable about it).

From the original post, I got the impression from the 'loud noises' that they were having sex!

I'd be uncomfortable with having sent my child into this situation as it wasn't what I'd assumed it to be when I agreed to the sleepover (ie that it would be the parents, whom I'd met, supervising the children) and that I'd unwittingly left my children in the care of some people I'd never met. In particular that one of those was male, and could have been any Tom Dick or Harry. That the parents were actually away for the weekend and didn't inform you of this is just wrong on every level!

It's certainly an odd set up, and I feel really sorry for the kids when he nanny decides to leave.

I also wonder about the possibility that she is exploited by the parents, by being given too much responsibility and expected to work very long hours- I bet she didn't get a few days off to compensate for working constantly over the weekend etc. I also bet she doesn't get the minimum wage for the hourrs she put in, though I realise that this is pure conjecture!

What ole said, the secrets thing is really not good.

Your DH needs to calm down.

In this situation you need to treat the nanny as if she was the Mum. The parents sound incredibly detached and if you speak to them about this it might well get the nanny fired & replaced - that would be awful for the children.

If this was the children's parents what would you do?

If it was me, I'd just say something to her along the lines of 'The girls were being all silly & giggly after seeing you kissing your boyfriend - they don't see much of that at home! 😂'. Just to let her know that it's being chatted about amongst the girls.

I wouldn't care if he stayed over as long as they were sensible and given she's basically parenting these kids, I'm sure she loves them & is careful.

Tell your DH this too.

C - speak to the mother

You don't know whether squashing her up against the wall and making noises was passionate or just messing about in a comical way.

Thankyou everyone. Sorry I was just driving.

It is a very weird set up. I be honest, I thought the nanny was the mother for ages, until I went to the house to drop the DD off one time. The father is some kind of oligarch, I am told - whatever that means? It's very much an upstairs /downstairs arrangement, but because I'm used to organising play dates etc via the nanny and can see she's very competent and doing everything, I had agreed for DD to go.

I know of other set ups where the nannies basically do everything, but at least the children are under the same roof as the parents and the nanny has a separate flat.

DH flipped out when DD was talking about the "loud noises" as he said why would you go into a little girls sleepover and have your girlfriend up against the walk? He does tend to over-react a bit though. The kitchen is kind of open plan into the living area so it would be quite obvious. There was DD and another friend there, plus the younger brother.

I guess I'll never know exactly what was going on. I don't want to push DD too hard for details as she seems fine, but she could not have made it up either. DH says the whole set up is ridiculous and this father needs to get his house in order because it's unsafe. But this is DD's best friend at the moment. They do ballet together and FaceTime a lot out if school and the nanny is always very nice and helpful so I don't want to land her in it. Yes I think she obviously has the right to a private life, but no idea how these things work or if this boyfriend is a regular ir not.

The mother is quite aloof, but has always been very hospitable when we've been invited over.

Please don't do "c". Go and talk to the nanny. She seems to spend more time with those children then their own mother does.

I think your DH is right to be honest, the nanny's boyfriend sounds like a wierdo and she is out of order for going along with it.

Parents like that don't deserve kids. From what your posts read they're not involved in their kids lives whatsoever. The mother doesn't work and is home some of the time when not traveling overseas, but the children live exclusively in the basement flat when they have a 3 or 4 floor house, even when she is there? They go in the main house for dinner only, and that's just weekends?

WHY on earth did these people have kids? It comes across as though it's purely a status symbol, that is good for the fathers image when doing his business to come across as a family man because he has kids like it might get him deals he otherwise wouldn't have.

Realistically they can't know a damn thing about their children, the Nanny is basically the mum who cares for and lives with them24/7. She can't have any time off at all as the kids live exclusively with her. The number of posts you get on here of unhappy parents because their partner doesn't take over/share childcare when they get home, this woman has it 24/7 with someone elses kids!

If she is expected to basically be 24/7 carer (i don't care how much they pay her to do this and basically act like the kids are hers not theirs) what other option does she have with regard to a boyfriend than have him come over? She clearly can't ever go to his place or out on a date because she's the 24/7 care giver to the kids, and it isn't fair to basically tell her she can't have him over to her house, she needs SOMETHING other than to just be a 24/7 childcare. Even the best parent needs a break, time to be their own person and not just a mum/dad, we need/crave relationships.
Maybe she organised the sleep over to coincide with her boyfriend visiting hoping that the kids would entertain each other and give her a little bit of time for herself and her needs. Unless the flat is open plan and the kids were in the living room whilst she was in the kitchen i don't think she's done anything wrong. If they were in the kids room or even living room and occupied you can bet she didn't expect an audience! If it was just kissing fair enough, if it was more than kissing should have been confined to bedroom with a closed door, or do they actually all share a room and the kids could have burst in?

I think nanny lives an unfairly restricted life, even if she gets paid way over minimum wage and has no rent on the flat allowing her to save it is still an awful way to live. I know i couldn't do it.

Mumsnet is united in judginess against the parents. That doesn't happen very often.

Firstly, I'd love to know what the nanny is being paid for full time sole care of children under the age of 9.

When I was in primary school my best friend had an identical set-up with her thoroughly disinterested parents (I think my friend was a late surprise baby, as her parents were older and she had much older siblings who were away at boarding school). She lived in the basement of their elegant home with the nanny. It was dark, gloomy and presumably quite lonely for her. She had terrapins though, and I remember being VERY impressed by them.

Anyway. The parents won't give a shit. They don't even know there was a sleepover, and the nanny is the closest thing to a Mum the child has. I would bring it up casually with the nanny, verbally or by text.

"Thank you for the lovely sleepover at the weekend. X had a lovely time. She mentioned though that your boyfriend was over and she saw you two in the kitchen - obviously she knows grown-ups kiss, but I just thought I'd mention it in case you thought you were alone! Anyway, we'd love to you have Y over some weekend soon - do you want to text me some dates?"

If you don't want your dd to witness this again, don't let her go again. Remember if your child has a friend with older siblings they will probably hear and see things that you won't be expecting them to. I remember going through similar with dd1's best friend, who was the youngest child in her family. Also, the nanny is more like a parent here. If you tell the child's parents, and out of anger or embarrassment they fire the nanny, who will be most affected? I'd say the children of that family would feel bereaved, so I wouldn't want to be responsible for that. As I say, just don't let your daughter stay there again.

I agree with AnnieAnoniMouse.
If the children live with the Nanny she is for all practical purposes the children's 'mother' and seeing her kissing her longtime partner is no different to seeing the children's parents kissing.
Children are at all sorts of risks at sleepovers no matter who is present be they parents or staff. Most cases of abuse etc happen via family members or family friends.
Personally I wouldn't send my child to a sleepover under any circumstances because it is too late once something has happened.
But if you are okay about sending a child to have a sleepover supervised by parents and with family members you can't 100% guarantee as completely 'not a risk' then I don't see the issue about sending a child to a sleepover supervised by a nanny with a partner you can't 100% guarantee as completely 'not a risk'.

Presumably a nanny has been CRB checked and is trained to be in a position with children under her care so arguably she is less of a risk to kids than parents and arguably she knows her own boyfriend and wouldn't put her home and livelihood at risk by inviting anyone 'dodgy' into her home. Well, no more than a parent would.

As for witnessing someone snogging - not convinced that is something likely to cause any long term psychological harm nor damage to developing moral codes. It boils down to whether you want your children never to be exposed to any standards/behaviours other than the ones they are used to at home. If that is the case then sleepovers are out. It seems extreme to expect others to change their lives and behaviours to make sleepovers completely unsurprising. To me it also seems extreme to cause trouble for someone and put their livelihood and home under threat and threaten to disrupt what is in effect a family group for the 'sin' of being caught snogging - if in fact this is what happened and it isn't something exaggerated or embroidered or misunderstood for some reason.

I agree with icanteven's suggestion if you feel the need to speak to the nanny

No different to seeing a parent kiss. Your dd friend might have lied to your dd to save face if she saw your dd was uncomfortable - so the nanny may well be allowed a boyfriend. You don't know.

In all honesty I wouldn't allow my kids to be supervised by someone else's nanny during a sleep-over. Presumably if shit hits the fan the nanny would only be liable/responsible for the kids she is paid to look after?

The nanny is to all intents and purposes the mother. Your husband is being hysterical.]

I read somewhere that when Margaret Thatcher had the twins they lived in a separate flat with their nanny.

Yes I agree she is basically the parent in this situation.

She has time off in the day because the DC are at school. I see her coming out of the Pilates class before mine. She did once joke she has to get out the flat when the cleaner is there. It's a very large basement that is semi under pavement level at the front, but then opens out into the back garden. I think she must get some time off in Sunday afternoons when the DC go up into the main house. There is also some kind of "homework tutor" who seems to be on ther some evenings, butI don't know if this is every night. I've no idea how much they pay her. She is British but speaks fluent Russian by the sound of it.

Bear in mind, OP, that it's not just nannies in their twenties who snog their boyfriends in the kitchen. I imagine (I hope so, anyway!) that lots of us also kiss our partners, and while DH and I probably wouldn't be getting down to some passionate snogging up against the kitchen wall with the children pottering about looking for snacks at 4pm, if one of them came down for something after bedtime, and we were feeling affectionate/frisky maybe they might see us locked in a passionate embrace. They probably won't be in therapy over it though.

Have your children never once seen you and your DH kiss?

I think it makes a significant difference whether your DD saw the nanny and her bf when the children were expected to be around and in the nanny's care, or if it was a 10pm and the nanny (rather optimistically on a sleepover with small children!) thought everyone was safely asleep.

I agree as well that sleepovers are always a risk to some extent. We have children here though fairly regularly. DH is more paranoid than me about these things, but maybe it's because he has less contact with the DC's friends' parents.

I agree with your husband. From a safeguarding perspective you need to be sure who you are leaving your kids with. You have no idea how well the nanny knows this man. At the very least if he is to be around the children he should be CRB checked. You need to speak to the mother!

I'm on the stricter side so would only allow sleepovers with family / close friends who I've known for 10+ years at primary school age, and would want to know if there was anyone else staying over too!

Having read all the thread now, I take it back about letting your dh handle this. Even though I think he is wrong to dump it on you, I think he would be a bit bull in a china shop. I wouldn't discuss this with the parents - they have effectively opted put of parenting. Speak to the nanny directly as suggested by icanteven.
I dont think the bf is some kind of weirdo though for being there. He probably just wanted to see his gf and didn't think about the kids being there. If he doesnt have kids himself, he might just be a bit clueless.
I do think the nanny needs to hear that what your dd witnessed wasn't really appropriate, although my feeling is that it was probably just a snog.

She is the closest person to a mother those dc have and given that she seems responsible in all other elements of their care, I think a quiet tactful word is the best bet.

Wow. I can see why my DH doesn't agree with sleepovers! Did you know the parents wouldn't be there when you agreed?

But when your child sleeps at a friends house the parents are not crb checked are there? If the parents were there m they wouldn't be checked.
I would say nothing but dd wouldn't be having a sleepover there again,

Icant - it was while they were watching a movie. The nanny and the boyfriend were in the kitchen, but it's kind of open plan. Yes, our DC have seen DH and I kissing, but he probably wouldn't do it in that way in front of the DC or when other people's DC are around.

What's with your DH, OP? Firstly if he has a problem whereas you don't maybe he should deal with it instead of instructing you..And as for saying the father "should get his house in order"... Wtf? Doesn't the Mother have a part to play too?

I agree that the family in question sound like they shouldn't have bothered to have children and agree that it was inappropriate for the nanny to be snogging her boyfriend too. However I also think your DP sounds like a bit of a dick. Probably quite a few people in your OP I wouldn't be bothering with if I was you.