Ok - another trans thead

[Bambambini]

This is more about logic and free speech than simply Trans issues. A catholic group paid to advertise their message on a bus that Girls have vulvas and boys have penises. Seems it was a reaction to a similar ad promoting that girls have penises and boys have vulvas. Aibu to be concerned that logic and free speech is under attack? Why was one claim allowed and another censored? This seems to be a sign of the times and I'm getting worried. Who is choosing which ideas, agendas are allowed and promoted?

Would you be happy for the catholic church to write message saying "marriage is between a man and a woman".

No i wouldn't. But i also wouldn't be happy with a sign saying 'marriage is only between 2 men/2 women'.

Which is what the op is saying. Why is one opinion allowed but not the reverse?

Especially since this one is fact and the other is bollocks.

It's a scientific fact that all boys have or had penises.

Well, one sign limits and judges people's bodies, and one allows greater freedom of bodily autonomy.

Ok, is it scientific fact that girls have penises and boys have vulvas - which was the message that was allowed to stand?

Limits and judges people's bodies? You're on the windup, Rixeria, surely?

If you take psychology as a science (which I do), then yes, some girls have penises is scientific fact.

Nope, I'm not a wind-up. I do consider it limiting to say 'hey, you can't do/be this way because of your body parts'.

because you identify as one
No, because science says you are. You cannot 'identify' as male or female. They are biological states and can't be changed.

I feel like I've wandered into some bizarre parallel universe...the Catholic Church is the one to make a stand in favour of science based facts? Really?

The first ad should have been banned, it wasnt so the second should have been allowed.

The church doesn't recognise my marriage either and I'm a Hindu woman (with a vulva) married to a Hindu man (with a penis). The church is a pretty useless institution if it needs to advertise to get people through the door - mosques and Hindu/Jewish temples don't need to do that.

I do consider it limiting to say 'hey, you can't do/be this way because of your body parts'.

I would agree with this though. Why should anyone be limited in what they wear/do just because they are male or female?

You can be anyway you like, uninhibited by your body parts. What you can't be is female if you happen to have a penis, or male if you have a vulva.

...some girls have penises is scientific fact
No, that's not psychology, it's codology, Rixera, you're getting confused.

Well that's a bit harsh.
'Bockting: "Transgender" refers to having a gender identity that differs from one's sex assigned at birth. "Gender identity" refers to the basic conviction of being a man, woman or other gender (e.g., bigender, genderqueer, gender questioning, gender nonconforming)'
Bockting = well respected clinical psychologist
I do actually know what I'm talking about.

But to my mind, "the basic conviction of being a man, woman or other gender' means 'Some people with penises are convinced they are girls', which is rather different.

Rixera, what does someone's gender identity have to do with their biological sex?

Does having this conviction make a female grow a penis then? If it was end of days tomorrow and they had to pick 5 women to jet off into space to keep the human race going - would they be looking for women with penises or women with vaginas and vulvas?

I agree that if the bus advertised one, it should advertise the other.
Although I disagree with it I actually would not care if a bus did an advert saying marriage is between a woman and a man. People are allowed to hold different beliefs. This extreme censoring is not right.

Sex is not "assigned birth" (with the exception of intersex conditions and it is wholly wrong to appropriate their specific issues), it is an irrefutable biological fact. If you cut me through the middle every cell reads XX. Even though I'm wearing joggies and a Canterbury hoddie and have short hair. Let us not confuse "sex" and "gender" they are not interchangeable.

Anyone who finds biology trigggering needs urgent medical help and some councelling to deal with their issues, not us agreeing science is not real.

Agree.

I do consider it limiting to say 'hey, you can't do/be this way because of your body parts'.

Agree with this too.
You can do/be/present/perform however you want.
However, you cannot 'change' sex from one to the other.
Sex is biological fact.

"I do consider it limiting to say 'hey, you can't do/be this way because of your body parts'.

Absolutely!!!! But that does seem to be what some of the trans lobby are saying, surely? I like X and Y, so that shows I am a girl/boy?

If you take psychology as a science (which I do), then yes, some girls have penises is scientific fact.

Only if you think that what people believe is what defines their sex. Which is incorrect. Sex is determined by chromosomes.

Also, for the love of fuck, when and how did it become acceptable to say that feelings, thoughts, the clothing you like, the job you do, etc is what defines being a woman?! We're not some amorphous interchangable mass with indentical likes and dislikes. What we have in common is our biology. We should be striving AWAY from the kind of shit that tells women how to act and feel based purely on their biology, not legitimising it by saying that anyone, regardless of sex, can call themselves a women so long as they feel pink and fluffy enough

The church is a pretty useless institution if it needs to advertise to get people through the door - mosques and Hindu... temples don't need to do that

No, but some of them are pretty keen on forced conversions.