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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ok - another trans thead

425 replies

Bambambini · 01/03/2017 13:20

This is more about logic and free speech than simply Trans issues. A catholic group paid to advertise their message on a bus that Girls have vulvas and boys have penises. Seems it was a reaction to a similar ad promoting that girls have penises and boys have vulvas. Aibu to be concerned that logic and free speech is under attack? Why was one claim allowed and another censored? This seems to be a sign of the times and I'm getting worried. Who is choosing which ideas, agendas are allowed and promoted?

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VestalVirgin · 03/03/2017 22:14

I'd give my gender identity as male.

If everyone does it, and they find that there are no women anywhere to be found, then perhaps they will think about whether it is really a good idea to throw women under the bus all the time.

BevGoldbergsSister · 03/03/2017 22:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BenLinusatemyhomework · 03/03/2017 23:03

Doctor's not being able to name body parts... and no one making policy sees this as problematic?!

I actually had a bit of an experience of this, this week. DS2 who is ten was in A&E with suspected appendicitis (which turned out to be actual appendicitis) and he was being assessed by the doctor. They asked him if it hurt when he peed, to which he said yes and then they asked him where did it hurt exactly. They then spent several agonising minutes eluding to my DS's penis whilst trying to not say the word penis and my son, who was really, really unwell and struggling to comprehend them, didn't have a clue what they were trying to ask him.

In the end, I couldn't bear it any longer and interrupted with "DS, does it sting on the tip of your penis when you wee?", which he was able to answer immediately. What I wanted to scream was "It's a penis, call it a penis, he's known it's called a penis since he was a toddler for fuck sake, you're a doctor, half your patients are going to have a penis, just call it a FUCKING PENIS"!

The doctor was slightly taken aback and then said "Oh yes, some people are a bit squeamish about those kind of words". Bearing in mind that a burst appendix is no laughing matter, faffing about with euphemisms to spare someone a bit of psychological discomfort seems bat shit to me, but then maybe a burst appendix isn't as bad as hurt feelings, what do I know?

DS's is fine now and has been enjoying his convalescence on the sofa watching cartoons and eating the pancakes he missed out on during the week

seafoodeatit · 03/03/2017 23:15

Ben - What a crazy thing for a doctor to say! Surely if they had such a problem with 'penis' they could have at least have said willy, I don't know how they thought your son whilst in agony would have been blushing at the word penis!

BenLinusatemyhomework · 03/03/2017 23:25

Is there a Gendervex option on those cards, cos that's what I'll be putting down for our household?

If they want to roll out this fuckwittery, then I'm at least going to have some fun with it. Gendervex is like a perverse psychological game of Reverse Battleships. Guess the gender right (Malegender 5 to Frostgender7) and the torpedo lands in the water, safe... for the time being, but guess wrong (Female 2 to Pangender 9)- Kabloowie! Whoop, whoop, Misgendering violence, Battleship hit!

But these are move-able battleships so even if you think you know where to avoid... WRONG! (Malegender5 to Frostgender 6) - whoop, whoop Battleship sunk.

The whole thing is just ideologically unsustainable. I can't even wrap my head around it.

BenLinusatemyhomework · 03/03/2017 23:30

I don't know either seafood'. They kept saying "your down below" and "your bits in your pants" and ridiculous stuff like that and they were surprised but relieved when I said penis. But these are doctors, it's really important that they can use the anatomically correct words because they are clear and unambiguous and they save vital time - I just don't get it!!

venusinscorpio · 03/03/2017 23:38

I like the battleships. That's as sensible a way as any of looking at this multigender batshittery, BenLinus.

Hope your son is ok now.

SnazzyLapels · 04/03/2017 00:54

Thanks Seafood

So the proposed change in the law to recognise gender identity as a protected characteristic is being tabled as a private members bill by a former minister for women and equality, Maria Miller. Would have thought she'd have some idea of women's issues. But then maybe not, her political interests are listed as housing, education and media. You can ask her about the bill by going through Seafoods link.

malificent7 · 04/03/2017 07:06

Just because its real dosnt mean it should go on the side of a bus.
Its clearly there to mske a point.
Besides ss the Catjplic religion is in no way based on fact then i dont think they can preach really.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 04/03/2017 08:46

The poster campaign was there to make a point too, Malificent. The church one had the advantage of being factually true.

CocoaLeaves · 04/03/2017 08:56

seafood I would be curious about this census question. Because if there is not a question about born sex how are they going to plan vital services (the purpose of the census).
I have not been sent the question and would have replied with concerns. Did it explain the reasoning behind the addition of the question? And whether it will replace sex?

Chickennuggetfeeder · 04/03/2017 09:19

2+2=5

The world is going bat shit crazy! We have to agree with made up truths to not upset people and no one's aloud to question it.

My son told me a couple of years ago he he could get rid of his Willy ad he wanted to be a girl and have pigtails. Some people would be saying this means he must be trans ect when in reality he just looks up to his sister. I explained he could have pigtails and still have all his parts and he was happy with that.

My other son said he wanted to grow up to be a penguin should I start keeping him in a freezer and feeding him fish?

Kids come out with so much stuff when they are young making decisions based on them that will affect the rest of their lives is a very scary and wrong thing to do.

I'm sure by having these views I will be classed as transphobic but liking pink, dresses and sparkly doesn't make you a woman as much as the fact me never wearing dresses, hating pink, never wearing makeup and riding motorbikes doesn't make me a man.

There are two sexes that's a fact.

NotYoda · 04/03/2017 09:51

Vestal

Excellent idea. Let's all be male Grin

NotYoda · 04/03/2017 09:55

Vestal

Also, this just popped into my head

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2017 10:02

The last time I looked, the MN profile page has a two-choice dropdown for 'gender' not sex. It's optional, but FFS, that's no good to either the gender-critical or the ambivalent neutrois demigod (may have got a bit confused there...) . It's really very silly for a parenting site which includes a whole 'sex' topic to be using 'gender' as a mealy-mouthed euphemism for sex. I have huge respect for MNHQ but this detail is just daft.

seafoodeatit · 04/03/2017 11:14

People have asked questions, the answers are rather depressing and unsurprising. I saw this on twitter yesterday.

we've gotten two letters and 2 postcard type things from the ONS now!

Ok -  another trans thead
seafoodeatit · 04/03/2017 11:14

yoda That's brilliant!

CocoaLeaves · 04/03/2017 11:34

Thing is 'rights of men and women but also trans individuals' implies a separate category - which i don't think most people would have an issue with.
Whereas what is happening on the ground is the co-opting of primarily female, but also male, spaces and being. Being is the best way I can say it without using the word 'identity'.

BertrandRussell · 04/03/2017 11:46

Ben- I have never heard medical professionals talking like that! Please tell me it was one crazy individual not the whole team?

BevGoldbergsSister · 04/03/2017 11:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BenLinusatemyhomework · 04/03/2017 11:56

Errol - It's everywhere now though. My son brought home a consent form for flu vaccination at school and it said Gender rather than Sex and that's the NHS.

If you read Jane Austin their are plenty of references to 'Sex' as a biological category and oddly whenever it's mentioned, nobody is carted off to their bedroom with a fit of the vapours. How in 2017 have we got so pearl clutchy about something so basic?

RE the bus : I think both campaigns are unnecessary, however one is factually correct and one isn't (and is creepy and basically says you can tell who is a boy and who is a girl by hair length).

seafoodeatit · 04/03/2017 15:24

Cocoa it would be a set of questions that would be an extra part of the census, on the bit with religion I think.

I'm trying to find it on their website but instead I found their notes from 2015, how depressing that back then it was still referred to as LGB.

chicken many would now call you a fetishist obsessed with genitals for that view, because they're trying to push the agenda that genitals = sex as offensive, hence the stupid boys with a vagina posters and hence no need for gender reassignment treatment, because like magic your genitals can be whatever you dream they are.

nooka · 04/03/2017 22:10

Asking about identity next to questions about religion makes a lot of sense to me. I am happy to provide feedback on 'what is your religion' so long as there is an answer of 'none' available. I hate being required to answer questions such as 'do you self-identity as male/female/other' when I reject the concept of self identification (of both gender and sex) totally but also think it's very important for organisations to know about diversity when it comes to providing services or employment.

PencilsInSpace · 05/03/2017 08:13

seafood - How can Dineage confidently claim that the govt.'s focus on trans equality 'has not been to the detriment of women' when they have 'not commissioned specific research' on transwomen's access to services for women and girls? Confused

It just translates as 'dunno, don't care' to me.

WobblyLegs5 · 06/03/2017 15:26

Rix I am also a woman who has been raped/sexually abused by both men and women. All sex abuse crimes are estimated to be under reported and very much under prosecuted. Male rape even more under reported, and male or female victimised by a female even more under reported. There are very very few studies on the stats of female offenders. Making daughters safe again (an excellent website for hundreds of reasons) has links to the studies there are (which focus on child sex abuse, and suggest female offenders make up more than the 'known' 2% iirc). Ime rape by my mother was much much worse than all of the other rapes by males (that she facilitated and profited from and got off on) but there are a number of reasons behind that, as is no doubt obvious. The legal definition of rape is penile penetration, which accounts for the risk of pregnancy, stid/is and the further truama that incurs. That sexual assault (object or digital rape) doesn't carry the same weight is not acceptable, but that's somewhat a side issue. Rape is an emotive word, it carries more weight than sexual assault somehow, and I say I was raped by my mother but I accept legally it isn't termed that.

However, while it's likely female sex offenders are more common than reported it's still unlikely that women offend on anywhere near the same scale as men. Gender is a hiarchy imposed by the patriarchy, if us lowly women made up a similar, or larger, proportion of sex offenders as men do the patriarchy would love to shout about us dirty, sick, perverted women who pose such a threat to them. They would love to lay the blame for sex offenses at our door or to argue that it's not a gendered problem and women pose an equal risk and that womens aid etc are discrimatory to men etc and that an equal proportion of that funding needs put back into the males pot.

I know the argument against this, that men and women offended against by females feel so ashamed they can't speak up etc but money and power are greater motivators and the patriarchy would love to gain more of that if there was actual evidence to prove female sex offenders are on an equal scale to males.

I get how frustrating it is that people don't realise the scale of female offenders, or the damage (and I hope posters visit making daughters safe again to gather some insight) but while there are more women sexually targeting victims than generally acknowledged it just doesn't make sense that it is on the same scale as male offenders.

Either way any victim should be free to chose the SEX of the doctor treating them where ever possible. Their needs (male or female victim) trump the needs/wants of the doctor.

As it happens i prefer female doctors for smears etc but male therapist and I much prefered the one male midwife I had. I respect other people's choice also. The proposed law takes that choice away from all of us. And it scares me. Really really scares me.

Re the naked kid picture, I can't put my finger on it exactly but there's something I'm finding triggering in similarity to pro-paedophilia organisations literature. (So this is why my train of thought maybe off-sorry if that's the case and this reads muddled).

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