Ok - another trans thead

[Bambambini]

This is more about logic and free speech than simply Trans issues. A catholic group paid to advertise their message on a bus that Girls have vulvas and boys have penises. Seems it was a reaction to a similar ad promoting that girls have penises and boys have vulvas. Aibu to be concerned that logic and free speech is under attack? Why was one claim allowed and another censored? This seems to be a sign of the times and I'm getting worried. Who is choosing which ideas, agendas are allowed and promoted?

Either both should've been allowed to stand, or neither. You can't allow it for one group but not the other.

The first image is itself highly transphobic. Do you see how the artist has used hair styles to indicate gender, Childminder? The only way you can tell which are supposed to be the vulva-toting boys, which the bepenised girls, is that the penis owners have traditional girly hairstyles. But trans activists insist they don't have to present as the gender with which they identify. They don't need hair to demonstrate their trans identity and demanding that they do is transphobic.

Personally, I think that any pressure group that feels the need to plaster drawings of children's genitals on billboards deserves very intense scrutiny. The trans agenda for children is a huge concern. How many kids will be sterilized and mutilated before the wheels come off this misogynist, homophobic movement?

Otoh

Oh, thank God for you, Tumble. This is getting freaky.

I know 2 trans women and they say exactly the same tumble. They find most of the 'trans-agenda' both hilarious and scary at the same time.

If you take psychology as a science (which I do), then yes, some girls have penises is scientific fact.

Psychology DOES NOT say that. Suggest you educate yourself.

If some men have vulvas and some women have penises then how do we tell the difference between men and women?

I don't understand all of this: "I feel like a woman" therefore I am a woman.

I just am who I am and I happen to be a woman because I have XX chromosomes, I have a vulva and I've been pregnant and given birth; not because I feel like one as I've no idea how that feels.

What sex you are is a fact, and unless you have a rare intersex condition you are either male or female and that cannot be changed, no matter what hormones you take or what you chop off.

The world had gone mad and I'm genuinely frightened what the consequences may be for women.

I know someone else has already repeated yellowfrog but it's worth doing again..

Also, for the love of fuck, when and how did it become acceptable to say that feelings, thoughts, the clothing you like, the job you do, etc is what defines being a woman?! We're not some amorphous interchangable mass with indentical likes and dislikes. What we have in common is our biology. We should be striving AWAY from the kind of shit that tells women how to act and feel based purely on their biology, not legitimising it by saying that anyone, regardless of sex, can call themselves a women so long as they feel pink and fluffy enough

This in spades

I'm appalled that we seem to be regressing back into ridiculous gender stereotypes and using this as the basis upon which people 'decide' they are a man or woman? We should be widening our definitions of what it is to be a man or a woman in the interests of including people who feel outside of the 'traditional' bullshit definitions.

Biology can't be opted into and the movement towards this is frightening and on a par with creationism.

Thank you Tumble for a sensible view from a trans woman. It's sorely needed

I am honestly not trying to start an argument but I really don't understand why stating biological facts is offensive and transphobic. Can someone please help me understand?

Ignoring the whole trans-debate for a moment, I don't like the church's advert because it ignores intersex people. People can be born with XX chromosomes and have a penis, for example. Obviously there are a myriad of other conditions too. Whatever your views on gender, biological sex is not binary and just because intersex people are a minority doesn't mean their existence should be ignored.

If those ads were in this country, I'd hope that the first one wouldn't be deemed to pass the 'legal, decent, honest and truthful' advertising standards criteria. Whereas tbh the bus probably would (though maybe discussing kids genitalia on buses is not totally 'decent')

I also studied psychology and it's not a hard science like biology. It definitely doesn't qualify you to issue proclamations about physical sex.

I am enormously uncomfortable with the images of children's genitals being used to advance any agenda. The Catholic one made its point in a far more appropriate manner. The trans* one is creepy. Which other groups plaster images of naked children, line drawn or otherwise, around the place?

Plus, I was going to post what prawn said - the image simply shows girls with short hair and boys with long hair This kind of stereotyping by external markers is what women, born female, have been fighting for generations.

Gender is in no way at all related, linked, affected or effecting sex.The two are completely seperate.

Gender is not completely separate. It was clearly constructed to help oppress women under patriarchy. And "gender identity" is now being used to take women's spaces away from women.

Women who don't conform to gender roles are punished by patriarchy.

... you are, of course, right in that hair length° which here seems to serve as symbol for "gender" does not affect sex, nor is it affected by it, in nature.^ (Society is a different thing.)

Errol the first one might fail on child protection (obscenity) legislation, never mind on objective truth.

But to the OP, the point about the erosion of free speech is valid, yes.

I do consider it limiting to say 'hey, you can't do/be this way because of your body parts'

⬆️ That's the core of the trans ideology though! Saying that IF you have certain genitals then you should like certain things, and if you don't like those certain (arbitrary) things, then you need to transition to become more like the opposite sex. It's dressed up as being a warm fuzzy free and easy ideology, but it's the most conservative ideology imaginable. Such regressive bullshit.

Tumble good to have your perspective.

To answer your question it was the "Don't be fooled" comment and the underlying reason behind the bus campaign that I personally viewed as offensive. I think that if I was the parent of a child struggling with the genitalia that they had been born with then this message would upset me.

I don't claim any personal experience though and accept that others have different views on this.

The picture on the 'girls can have penises' poster is ridiculous because all it shows is that children can have short hair or long hair whatever their sex.

It's not about stereotypes, except when it's about long hair and pink sparkles

ageingrunner i agree, that is where I was going with my comments. I honestly do wonder why focusing on children's genitals is socially acceptable within the trans* agenda but nowhere else. It is totally inappropriate.

Transactivists are quite simply mentally ill. I am tired of the time and attention being given to try and accommodate their warped world view. I am not 'cis' I am a woman- there is no need for any other word. I am a woman because I was identified as having the sex characteristics of a female child at birth. I went on to develop into an adult human female. I have never conformed to a typically feminine patriarchal gender role model, but I HAVE ALWAYS experienced the sexist and sexual abuse that goes with the territory of being female. I will not allow men to appropriate my name, my safe spaces, my causes, or my rights. Quite frankly MTT people who claim to be women can fuck off!

Yes it's very odd isn't it Cocoa? Transwomen seem to not be held to the same standards as the rest of society, at least in some quarters. Unscrupulous people taking advantage of women who, for whatever reason, have poor boundaries. Obviously not all tw are like this, by any means. It's just the one with the loudest voices, seemingly!