Interesting letter from a volunteer to non volunteers

[Narnia72]

Volunteering

I hope the link works. We often have discussions about "worthy" volunteers with regard to school activities, but this was a thought provoking read. It was timely for me as my son's football team is having to close the younger age group classes as there's no-one to coach (made up of volunteer coaches). It made me think about all the volunteers who give their time to run low cost groups for my kids; brownies, cubs, football, messy church, netball, youth drama are all run by volunteers. When you talk to them it's clear there is a circuit- they often start on the pre school committee, then progress onto PFA, governors, then to the clubs that their children are interested in. It's very much the same people, over and over again. Why is that?

It also reminded me of a conversation I had recently with a brown owl, who had been spoken to very rudely by a parent, complaining about the activities on offer, and why they didn't do more. When asked if she would help, this parent recoiled in horror and said "but I PAY you to do this for my kids". There's clearly a massive lack of understanding about what these roles are.

So, open to debate. Do your children benefit from activities run by volunteers? Do you value them? Do you volunteer yourself? If not, do you look to help in any way, either by donations to the group, or supporting fundraising events? Do you ever think to say thank you to the volunteers? This is not meant to be a goady post, I volunteer in a minor capacity at school, but although I do value what the external clubs do for my kids, I am guilty of taking the volunteers who run them very much for granted. I am going to say thanks to them all this week!

I'm trying to help the football team attract coaches (football sadly not something either me or DH are in any way skilled at), and have met with so much apathy and indifference, but also entitlement, as though the tiny sub they pay guarantees a 5 star service.

I know the letter writer is a bit sanctimonious, but thought there were some good points in and amongst. Thoughts?

DH and I were talking about volunteering at the weekend. He would be very interested in football coaching. What puts him off is all the abuse he would get off the other parents whose little darling is on the bench this week or whatever. We've both seen this happen and he remembers parents getting quite aggressive when he played as a kid. There was an incident locally a couple of years ago where the linesman at a kids' match was punched in the face by a parent.
I'm sure there are lots of people who would volunteer to run activities for children but don't want to have to deal with unpleasant parents. I don't blame them either!

Two things:

1. Yes, we do need to truly appreciate and acknowledge the value of volunteers, they make great things happen directly and indirectly.
2. That letter is sanctimonious, cheesy, full of passive aggressive martyrdom and likely to fuel the feelings at some school gates that the PTA is a fast track to power in the clique. It also demonstrates a lack of rigour in the matter of correlation / causation on the lives of kids whose parents volunteer. It is obviously an American letter so much of the wince-inducing style may be down to cultural differences,

The dedication, commitment and hard work of scout leaders transformed my kids lives. Weekend after weekend on camps, courses, expeditions, really interesting opportunities. They really did teach resilience, self sufficiency and skills. Our school PTA raised loads of money to make the school journey, a week in Yr 6, very cheap for all, as well as other fantastic contributions to the school.

I have supported from the sidelines: answering every single call for cakes, raffle prizes, etc. I continue to support scouts and PTA even though my kids have left, as I have a lasting gratitude.

Well done everyone who makes things happen

I think it's quite simple. People who want to volunteer should do it, people who don't shouldn't bother. I can't stand the smuggery from some that do. It is just a personal choice.

I have always volunteered since I was a teenager. Am currently a school governor with various "extra" responsibilities which take up a lot of time, so that is all I do at the moment. Work full time as well.

In years gone by, I've done all sorts - homeless shelters, litter picking, PTA, hospital drivers, food banks, MENCAP, mentoring etc. I have never done it because I'm a better person than anyone. I just do it because I want to and it feels rewarding!

I'm a Brownie and Guide leader. All three Guide leaders work full time and one looks after grandchildren on her day off. Two Brownie leaders work full time including one doing shifts, one works part time, one recently retired. Across the district most leaders work full time including several teachers. Many also have their own children or provide care for grandchildren. Many also volunteer in church as well.

Definitely agree there are givers and takers.

I am a school governor, professional board committee member, walker for the local dog rescue and work full time.

I am lucky, I have my health and a decent wage, a good education and healthy children. I still sometimes think I've taken on too much and would never judge anyone who didn't feel able to volunteer. Mind you, no-one has ever treated me bad lying whilst I've been volunteering.

I do agree that it's related to where your parents volunteered, mine still do (in their 70s now).

I'm on our PTA and a Board of Trustees which takes up a lot of time, plus help at my daughters sports club. My DH coaches at our sons local football team, putting in lots of hours each week. His favourite present at Christmas was a homemade card and picture from one of the boys who wrote a thank you saying that his coaching was 'awesome' and he was the best coach ever! We both work in pretty stressful senior FT roles which in themselves are time consuming. On our PTA all the volunteers work FT (we only have 6 on the PTA as no one will volunteer!), same as the Board and with the sports coaching. No one I know who does this begrudges the time they spend doing so and get a lot of satisfaction in seeing the enjoyment and development of the children. My DH favourite gift at Christmas was a homemade card and picture from one of the boys who wrote a thank you saying that his coaching was 'awesome' and he was the best coach ever!

However, what does bug me is that in my experience it is the people who have the most time (in that they either don't work at all or are part time) who do the least to help (ie wont even give 30 mins on a stall at a school fayre once a year) who are the most vocal at complaining that the PTA should be doing this or that, or why didn't we have 10 more stalls to make it better........great so I can put your name down to help with that? No? Thought not.

I end up doing lots not because I have a sense of superiority or loads of time, but more often its a case of no one else is prepared to put time in - and I end up doing it otherwise the children miss out. Same with a couple of the other mums.

In my view if you are not prepared to help that's absolutely fine, but I) don't dress it up as not having time and ii) you then don't get the right to complain about how things are run.

What puts him off is all the abuse he would get off the other parents whose little darling is on the bench this week or whatever

I agree, it's such a shame that parents can't see past the end of their own nose. My DH was a football coach for 7 years. He loved it, but there were one or two parents that made it so much more difficult than it should have been. He was constantly hassled by these one or two, told he was doing a poor job, wasn't making the correct team selections, using the wrong tactics etc. They would shout at the kids and my DH from the sidelines, confusing for the children and annoying for my DH.

When my DH gave it up, although he had loved doing it, his decision to quit was at least in part due to the hassle these parents gave him. Interestingly, one of the more vocal parents took over as coach, and the team folded within a season.

How many people who are regulars on the volunteer circuit work full time?

The majority, in my experience

I think it's a combination of guilt, and the 'want something done? Ask a busy person' attitude
I find the SAHMs are the first to make excuses about it clashing with their yoga classes or school run, where as the full-time workers are more likely to find another class or make alternative pick up arrangements (or have them in place)

2 caveats - I live in London where SAHMs are a bit more of a 'type', and also lots of people work for big companies which offer volunteer leave which allows paid time off to volunteer. I get 5 days per year which I take as 10 half days, in addition the sessions I can do in the evenings and weekends

I understand about hidden disabilities, other commitments, other children and all the other things that people have mentioned. I understand that some people just don't want to commit themselves to a regular time every week.

My dp coach s a football team single handed. There were two coaches at the beginning of the season, but one had to drop out because his work pattern changed. DP works full time in a demanding job and commutes.

He has 20 regular players. They have a match or training twice a week.

20 players means an average of 40 parents, and associated grandparents and other "hangers on"

When we have home matches, it takes about an hour to set up the pitch and another hour to put things away afterwards. Dp has stopped asking if anyone will help, because he says that if he does and he gets no response again, he will find himself feeling too resentful to carry on. So he does it himself. And he usually runs the line as well, because nobody will help with that either. He loves the coaching and the boys-but it is soul destroying to be taking down goals and trundling a wheel barrow 400 yards to the lock up and back while parents stand round the burger van and chat. The boys sometimes volunteer to help, but there is only some stuff he can let them do.

And he got 2 cards and 1 bottle of wine at Christmas.

I think it's quite simple. People who want to volunteer should do it, people who don't shouldn't bother. I can't stand the smuggery from some that do. It is just a personal choice

But it's those who could and don't volunteer who are the biggest complainers. Time and time again. And I remember when I was chair of the PTA and organising the Summer Fayre and desperately needing more volunteers... 1 hour on the sweet stall, or 1 hour on bouncy castle duty. Nope, they wouldn't dream of doing it however nicely I asked and desperate I was. I don't get that mentality TBH. We're all in it together AFAIC.

I volunteer in a small way, helping in the classroom occasionally, and giving my specific skills for free when the school needs them, which they have appreciated.

BUT I don't like the attitude that everyone could help if they weren't so apathetic. No, they really, really couldn't. There are people who just don't have the spare time or childcare needed - I barely do. There are people who are stopped from doing it by shyness and lack of confidence / social skills - and cliquiness (I know people who have given up on PTA type stuff because it's too socially wearing). Holier-than-though judginess probably isn't helping with that aspect either.

"Also volunteering doesn't have to mean giving up loads of time or even making a regular committment"

This.

My dp would be so happy if someone just said occasionally "I'll help with that, mate" and did one of his wheelbarrow runs!

I would never moan and complain to a volunteer btw and I don't think that's on. People should be sensitive and grateful to volunteers - BUT that doesn't mean they have to do it themselves.

Bertrand that is dreadful. Your poor DH. God people are lazy. I can't believe a group of guys stand around whilst your DH does the whole thing before, during and after. Shameful.

"BUT I don't like the attitude that everyone could help if they weren't so apathetic. No, they really, really couldn't."

I don't think that for a second. But as I said, there are at least 40 people who could potentially occasionally help dp with his football team. He only needs a couple of them!

Dp has stopped asking if anyone will help, because he says that if he does and he gets no response again, he will find himself feeling too resentful to carry on

That's terrible, your poor DH. Could he try making it clear that help is expected, maybe set up a rota? I send out a rota at cubs at the beginning of each term, telling parents which week they are expected to help out at the meeting (I don't ask for volunteers, that doesn't often work). Of course, I make it clear that if parents are unable to help, or want to swap weeks, just let me know, but very few do, so we have a volunteer most weeks.

20 bottles of wine at Christmas would ease the pain a bit......

I'm not sure that I agree with the assumptions that are made in the letter or that are being made on this thread.
A couple of the assumptions are that non-volunteers are 'apathetic', that if you can ergo you should, the worst complainers are those who don't 'volunteer' etc.
Also this thread has turned into, 'I do this, I'm on this, I do that...etc etc'.
rousette your view of the world being made up of people who 'give' and those who 'take'. It's very black and white isn't it? Let me guess what side you're on..? Oh a 'giver', how did I know. That must mean you're a good person unlike all those 'takers' out there.

I can see that if they are standing around in the same place doing nothing while someone else lugs all the stuff, they should help - but that's human decency really.

I don't mind other people not volunteering, but I won't have them treat me like the hired help.

I've learned my lesson from years of volunteering in a school ( which my own DC didn't even fecking attend) and having parents act like entitled twats (whilst not stepping up to volunteer at the school their DC did attend).

I'm now very clear about what I will and won't do. And I'm quite vocal to anyone who oversteps the line.

I don't think everyone could help. There are a lot of people out there who struggle and volunteering would just not be right for them for a myriad of reasons.

However, the sort of people I mean are the takers. Still feel it now years later from Summer Fayres, PTA, school shop running. Groups of women who don;t work, have GPs looking after little ones etc who would not dream of lifting a finger to help but moan continually about the stalls at the Fayre, the fact it wasn't for 6 hours like last year (us volunteers are knackered!), why didn't we have such and such a stall (no one to run it) blah blah. It takes strength to smile sweetly and answer!

MilkTwoSugars completely agree. Letter is rude, patronising and sanctomonious. Laughable that there are people on here saying 'But I know of people who could easily spare some time but don't do anything'. How do you know? You don't know for sure what people do when they leave the school gates in the morning. And it doesn't matter what they do. If they want to volunteer they will, if the don' t they don't.

And I say that as someone who spent all of infants and juniors and some of secondary active on the PTA with only a handful of other parents. I accepted that people have a choice what they do with their free time, and if they don't want to spend it on the PTA it's up to them and nobody else. Not to mention the fact that school playgrounds are a breeding ground for gossip (from the parents not the kids) and some people want to actively avoid that environment. And I dont blame them.

volunteers make me feel guilty! I tend to avoid volunteer activities for this reason TBH, I would rather pay.

I truly could not do more, it would make me anxious and I am anxious as it is- so I avoid and pay up

bert my DS footie team will fold at the end of this season as the boys are 17/18.

The coach was telling me his SIL had asked if he'd take over her son's U10s team. 'No way' was the immediate answer.

Deadsouls I agree my 'give' and 'take' view is far too black and white. There are many grey areas. I've had times in my life where I just could not face volunteering for anything so I do know. There's no need for you to be so snippy about it though... throughout this discussion I've laboured the point that there are those who really don't have the mental and physical capacity to volunteer and there's nothing wrong with that