Interesting letter from a volunteer to non volunteers

[Narnia72]

Volunteering

I hope the link works. We often have discussions about "worthy" volunteers with regard to school activities, but this was a thought provoking read. It was timely for me as my son's football team is having to close the younger age group classes as there's no-one to coach (made up of volunteer coaches). It made me think about all the volunteers who give their time to run low cost groups for my kids; brownies, cubs, football, messy church, netball, youth drama are all run by volunteers. When you talk to them it's clear there is a circuit- they often start on the pre school committee, then progress onto PFA, governors, then to the clubs that their children are interested in. It's very much the same people, over and over again. Why is that?

It also reminded me of a conversation I had recently with a brown owl, who had been spoken to very rudely by a parent, complaining about the activities on offer, and why they didn't do more. When asked if she would help, this parent recoiled in horror and said "but I PAY you to do this for my kids". There's clearly a massive lack of understanding about what these roles are.

So, open to debate. Do your children benefit from activities run by volunteers? Do you value them? Do you volunteer yourself? If not, do you look to help in any way, either by donations to the group, or supporting fundraising events? Do you ever think to say thank you to the volunteers? This is not meant to be a goady post, I volunteer in a minor capacity at school, but although I do value what the external clubs do for my kids, I am guilty of taking the volunteers who run them very much for granted. I am going to say thanks to them all this week!

I'm trying to help the football team attract coaches (football sadly not something either me or DH are in any way skilled at), and have met with so much apathy and indifference, but also entitlement, as though the tiny sub they pay guarantees a 5 star service.

I know the letter writer is a bit sanctimonious, but thought there were some good points in and amongst. Thoughts?

[paxillin]

The volunteer pool can be extended by asking people to do well-defined one-offs. We realised the people who organise the PTA, fundraise, bake cakes, man the stalls and print the flyers were also the ones carrying tables at take down. No amount of advertising got others in.

Asking "can I put you down for tidying up for 20 minutes after the party/ to make one cake/ to man hook-a-duck from 3-4" was much more successful and ultimately brought in more regular volunteers, too.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

It all reminds me of the old saying: if you want something doing, ask a busy person

In a lifetime of volunteering, most of it community work, I've always found that there are those who talk about what should be done (usually by someone else) and those who just quietly get on with doing it. I've chaired too many meetings where someone will wave their arms and demand action now, but on the day when something's actually needed ... tumbleweed

Yes we've all got other things to do and busy lives, but in the end I honestly believe it comes down to an attitude of mind

[Pouncival]

When you talk to them it's clear there is a circuit- they often start on the pre school committee, then progress onto PFA, governors, then to the clubs that their children are interested in

This describes me, I now head up a youth group that my children are too old for now. I'm happy volunteering, parents are (mostly) appreciative.

What I find irritating is when people say "but why do you still do it if your children are now too old" it's almost as if I'm embarrassing them because they are not volunteering.

[greedygorb]

This is interesting for me. I am one of those so called do gooder volunteers. I'm on the PSA and I hate it. Not because of the the committee because actually they are all a good laugh but our school really needs the money and there's basically 8 parents out of a school roll of 450 doing everything. You resent that.
I am also a scout leader and help run the 3 sections because we haven't enough leaders. Kids on the waiting list at all levels but no volunteers. I absolutely love scouts. I get so much fun out of it but honestly when the GSL and I have been camping with the kids 14 weekends out of the year plus multiple hours put in every week, plus training and courses and the parents won't even carry one item to the car at the end of camp but will watch us doing it because little Johnny wants to go home because he's tired you get a little pissed off. So like Bertrand Russell's DP you stop asking because it pisses you off so much when they say no. And they do. We haven't even managed a bottle of wine at Christmas yet or a Christmas card.
Noone does it because they're smug or a martyr, no one starts off wanting to do as much as they end up doing but what happens is that you feel you can't let your other volunteers down because they will end up with even more of a burden because you know that in all probabilty noone else will step up to do it.
My parents both gave up much of their free time to volunteering, scouts, school, guides, rugby etc so I agree it's a think you learn as a child.

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

Okay people who are saying you work FT and volunteer - I am full of admiration - but WHEN?

I get up around 6am - ferry DD to nursery for 7.45/8am - at desk 8.30 and work till 5 - get DD and home by 6 - she is in bed by 7.30 so I have approx 90 minutes a day with her, which I don't want to give up - come 8pm I'm doing the laundry/ breakfast dishes/ making up cloth nappies/ etc - dinner and crack open laptop to do work emails - 11pm bed.

Weekends: I work one weekend a month, and other times, we have the usual shit to do, shopping and housework, seeing relatives, plus I don't want to not see DD when I haven't spent more than an hour or so per day with her all week

So honestly, how the hell do you manage a regular volunteering commitment if you work FT??

I 'volunteer' by doing stuff like marshalling at an event once a year that DH work runs to raise money for charity, and I bake cakes for nursery bake sales to raise money, etc. But that doesn't make me 'a volunteer' IMO. 'A volunteer' is someone who helps out weekly or at least monthly. And I don't get how someone with a FT job can do that. Can someone explain their schedule?

[Ragwort]

Deadsouls - I knew someone would pick up my comments as being 'sanctimonious* - as I said in my post, I am well aware that many people think that volunteers are 'do-gooders' with a 'holier than thou' attitude - as you clearly do .

But I am genuinely interested in why some people volunteer and some don't - just as I am interested in why some people love - for eample - gardening and some don't. I have a day off work today and I will spend it doing four different tasks for volunteer organisations I belong to. I'm not doing them because I think I am 'better' than non-volunteers, I would genuinely rather be doing these things instead of housework/gardening/shopping/watching tv/going to the gym or whatever else people choose to do in the spare time (assuming no child care responsiblities) and yes, I suppose I am genuinely interested in what makes people tick.

[WorshipTheGourd]

the 'I am more/less able to volunteer than you' argument is pointless.

The issue is people who DO have capacity to volunteer (and all our capacities are different) who actively CHOOSE not to.

I don't volunteer. I am a 'barely making it through the day' person right now.
H doesn't volunteer. He feels it's beneath him.
Different reasons, but neither of us volunteering.
I come from a family of 'staggering through the day' people.
H comes from a family who pull up the bridge behind them.

[herethereandeverywhere]

My parents did lots of voluntary work for many years. In fact they were better at that than their jobs. I remember mum caring for us alone whilst dad was away with the club (adults with learning difficulties) or certain days we couldn't see dad because he was doing club stuff (mum stopped when she had kids).

Roll on 40 years and my parents are in financial dire straights, retired on meagre pensions (I've bailed them out to the tune of five figures more than once.) I can't help thinking if they'd focused on job/career more and volunteering less then they'd be in a better position now. - What I'm trying to say is that I think time and tiredness constraints connected to work (which is in turn connected to financial security) are the main reasons people don't volunteer.

Once I've done my paid job and my chores I generally have 9.30-11pm to rest during the week, plus Sunday with the kids (Saturday spent on home chores). Adding another responsibility is not realistic.

I think contributing to society through voluntary work is a great and noble thing to do - my parents connection is with IVS (connected to VSO but not overseas) but having a work-life balance that makes it possible in this day and age is becoming more and more rare unfortunately.

[BertrandRussell]

My dp runs a coaching session on Tuesday evenings- he usually goes straight from work. And matches or training on Saturday mornings- he just gets up early. Our ds has always been in his team, so he has always gone with him.

Same with Scouts- one or other or both of our children have always been in the troop we help with.

[BadKnee]

The thing is - slightly off topic - but if we all want stuff we all somehow have to give/work/contribute. Or not have it.

Either everything is money-based and the rich pay and the poor don't have - or the rich pay enough tax so that the poor can have exactly the same as the rich.

Or everything is skill/capability based and the fit and able get everything and the weak and unable don't.

Or we strike a mix - and the volunteer system is a huge part of that. If no-one volunteered for anything we would have to accept that the poor and the unable got nothing, (or we forced the rich/able to allow everyone to have it)

(I am not just talking about football coaches and Brownie packs although they are huge - but all the work done by volunteers.)

[WeAllHaveWings]

There is a saying that the motivation to volunteer is a mixture of motives, both altruistic and egotistical and I think that's about right.

100% this. Volunteers are not saints, they choose to volunteer for their own benefit above all else, either because they want a hobby/purpose, feel good giving or because they are on an ego trip. Apparently from this thread that ego trip includes feeling superior to others who choose not to or cant volunteer.

Unfortunately being a perceived saintly volunteer gives some not only a superiority complex but a level of protection to allow them to perform their role badly. e.g. the unapproachable PTA clique we hear about on MN all the time, the football coach who has never played football himself that humiliates rather than motivates children but comments from parents are frowned upon because he's a volunteer and the team wouldn't be there without him (yes it would we have a ex amateur coach parent willing to set up but he cant because he isn't in the committee clique).

Sorry if that is harsh but the thread needs some balance!

[Schwifty]

WeAllHaveWings

I concur! You've got me on 2 out of 3. I needed a purpose again after hitting rock bottom, and it was something I'd always wanted to do but couldn't due to work and other circumstances.

[herethereandeverywhere]

My dad is the least egotistical man on earth. I guarantee he did and does not volunteer to bolster ego, along with most of his IVS buddies.

For them I'd say it's similar to a calling like being a nurse - nothing egotistical just a natural affinity with giving and selflessness. Which is great if you have the time to do it (all of his male friends also had SAHM wives so no need to worry about parenting whilst volunteering).

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

I think some families just do it, because it's what your parents do etc - my grandma was a brown owl and school governor, DM was a tawny owl, PTA, local guild trustee etc.

My DSis were both encouraged to volunteer at school, and we both had various committee roles at university (both presidents of big sports/societies eventually) and volunteer now. We also get roped into DM's stuff and my old dance school and a university soc have asked me to do door duty, run errands etc.

I do have one thing that's a big yearly event I'm currently saying "never again" to (it was last week), because there's a load of behind the scenes paperwork and stress and you're likely to be shouted at on the day. But it's like having a baby - you forget the pain and sleep deprivation quickly, so I'll probably do it again next year!

But like I say, for us it's just something that you do - a job needs doing so you do it.

We're all quite confident and happy to run things though, whereas if you were shyer I can can see how you might find it harder.

[Foureyesarebetterthantwo]

I also think about volunteering in family terms, as in what the whole family are contributing. My husband is a real volunteering type of person, any open day, chance to give talks, run clubs and so on, he takes. However, at times, his helpful personality has been taken advantage of, so he ends up fixing computers for a friend of a friend for free, helping at events which aren't so connected to him. In the end we have drawn a line which is no work without payment except for direct and good friends. He still volunteers where he can. I don't think I could volunteer as much as him and still have enough family time, so him volunteering (say twice a week) is a good contribution. I do think there's a balance to be struck, especially if everyone is super-active in volunteering (if he did twice a week, I did twice, we would have almost no weekday evenings to supervise homework).

[BadKnee]

Oh and it doesn't have to be every week.

I used to do every Saturday - teaching refugees when I was single and Saturdays were free.
When I worked full time and had a baby I did nothing.
When I had a 2 yr old child I helped tidy up after the playgroup - that was about all I could handle
When kids at primary I did reading, supporting in the classrooms
Later I ran an after school sports club at the school, marshalled at events (1 day a term)

For three years I did nothing - times were difficult.
The I did one evening a month supervising a choir as an "extra pair of eyes" for child protection/health and safety regs.
When times were easier I did a day a month with an organization
Now I do a day a week for a national charity.

It is a mindset - you do what you can when you can.

[Itmustbemyage]

I think people,wrongly in my opinion, either see themselves as the 'sort' of people who volunteer or the 'sort' of people who don't.
I work full time and so does my DH, in average jobs, we have raised two children - one with ASN's and we now have aging parents and also grandchildren to make claims on our time. I am a serial volunteer, and get twitchy when I am not volunteering. Some of the volunteering I have done has related to my children's activities some has not. My DH has in the past also volunteered in various organisations.
I currently volunteer in two different ways, one takes up one evening a week and the other can be done at home, in a couple of hours, about 4 times a year. Neither of these require any special skills in fact they specifically needed people with 'life experience'.
In fact the organisation I volunteer one evening a week with is one that is frequently recommended on MN as being extremely helpful to struggling parents of young children. But without volunteers it would not be able to function.
In our area there is a volunteer centre where they match up 'vacancies' with potential volunteers taking into account expertise / time that the volunteers are able to give. You can also register an interest with an organisation online.
I can't say honestly that every time I have volunteered it has been perfect, the worst experience I had was on a school Parents Forum where the criticism from parents got so hurtful that 3 of the committee, including myself, resigned. But overall over the years the positives have overwhelming beaten the negatives.

[Sittinginthesun]

Johnny you'll probably find that most people volunteer when the children are older. You'll find that life changes anyway, and you'll become a taxi service ferrying them to clubs etc, so there will be plenty of opportunities if you want to.

My dcs are 13 and 10, and at least half of their clubs are in the evening now.

[BertrandRussell]

"100% this. Volunteers are not saints, they choose to volunteer for their own benefit above all else, either because they want a hobby/purpose, feel good giving or because they are on an ego trip. Apparently from this thread that ego trip includes feeling superior to others who choose not to or cant volunteer."

Ah, I understand. People don't help because they are worried about the volunteer might lose a vital ego trip. All now becomes clear.......

Of course my dp enjoys what he does. But it is ridiculous to say that he does it for his own benefit. He does it because otherwise 20 kids who want to play football woildn't get the opportunity.

The ego trip line is one that people use to make themselves feel better about being among the 25% (arbitrarily arrived at figure) of parents who could help but don't.

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

But I do tend to volunteer linked to things I actually enjoy - I don't think there's any point in martyring yourself. (I know I was moaning about my event, but I do love it really!)

I'm happy to help anybody with a one-off thing, but for regular commitments I'd rather do something I'm interested in (then I also don't block an interested person).

[TheIncredibleBookEatingManchot]

I think the tone of that letter would put a lot people off volunteering, non-volunteers will just think, "if volunteering means having to spend time with people like that, then I don't want to do it."

I think lack of confidence is what stops a lot of people volunteering in PTAs or children's clubs. People either think they don't have the skills to chair a committee or coach football, or they genuinely don't have the skills and so leave it to people who can do better.

It is quite annoying though when volunteers get all martyry. If you don't enjoy doing it and you're not getting something out of it, like something to put on your CV, then just don't do it. If it means the children miss out, then so be it. They'll live.

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

I have always been a volunteer/ activist. When I was at school I set up a recycling scheme for the all the cans generated by a couple of soft drink machines in my secondary school. So I spent lunchtimes rinsing and crushing cans - more fun than dodging the knob heads in the playground! I got a certificate at the end of the year. Which was nice. As a teenager I was also a member of an Animal Rights Group (this was back when make up was still being tested on animals as a matter of course and fur was still fashionable), so I spent my weekends running a stall, going to meetings and demos.

I took up volunteering again when I had children, pre-school committee, PTA and then School Governor. I went along on school trips when they needed an extra hand. I set up and run a book club. I now volunteer with CAB and have trained as a Gateway Assessor - really enjoy this and would happily do this as a full time job. I would really like to get paid now though. I feel significantly less valued in general as a volunteer - I have never done it for the thanks - it has always been something I want to do but I do feel that people who are volunteer minded are taken for granted - by society, not so much by the organisations that depend on volunteers to exist.

It is also clear that some people find volunteering hard to relate to - DH is like this - he works hard and gets a decent wage - he works in the public sector (as did I prior to children) and feels he has 'done his bit' and is not motivated to volunteer as well - he also values his time away fro the office and with his family. I am motivated to work for the public good - I would be very happy to earn a wage for the work I do at CAB - BUT - I really value the flexibility that I am allowed in the voluntary sector - which I am loathe to lose.

I think the 'open letter' is smug and self congratulatory - if someone doesn't want to volunteer in the school then so what? It is never going to change someones mind by putting them on the defensive - criticism needs to be tempered with praise - If all you can do is get your children to school and back - clean, fed, homework done - that can be an achievement (speaking as someone with two children with ASD) - life is very hard sometimes. If we want volunteers we need to make it more appealing and value them as a society - not write wanky letters making it look like you will be stuck working with judgemental wankers for no pay as that really does not appeal!

[BadKnee]

I volunteer because I enjoy it and it is good for me. (Tend to depression if I don't have a reason to get out) but the saintly thing is simply not true.

Equate it to a family. Do you do the laundry, cook the dinner, supervise homework and clean the house because you are a saint? Or because the family with young kids are your responsibility and you want the family to be the best it can? It's the right thing to do.

Same with "my" street, "my" town, "my" society - my responsibility.

[Foureyesarebetterthantwo]

Once I've done my paid job and my chores I generally have 9.30-11pm to rest during the week, plus Sunday with the kids (Saturday spent on home chores). Adding another responsibility is not realistic

This is me. As I also pointed out above, I support my husband to do volunteering by childcare, driving him there, lugging boxes to events and so on.

People work longer hours in the UK than in much of mainland Europe (although they have high unemployment as well). My parents were teachers and used to come home at 3.30 and 5pm respectively. The teachers I know now never leave before 5 and work from home most nights, and are expected to do parents evenings/school events in their free time.

The 'Big Society' was never going to work for that reason, long working hours, tired population, two parent f/t working isn't that conducive to volunteering. Most women now work outside the home and although I hear lots of working women saying 'I volunteer', there has to be some relationship between availability and time and what can be achieved, you may be able to do a once a week 2 hour session or occasional meetings, but day to day caring responsibilities/taking people to hospital in the daytime/calling on elderly neighbours, that type of volunteering which isn't recognized or formal is harder and harder if you are exhausted from living your own life. My mum admits that her 20 years as a housewife (and volunteer) plus 20 years working part time are not comparable to the type of hours I put in now and of course that has impacted my ability to offer additional free work!

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

Ragwort

I think I'm over my anger now so I'll try and answer your question about why I don't volunteer (although obviously this is specifically me I doubt my reasons are unique).

At the moment I struggle to get through a day without a panic attack, so no-one's getting anything out of me, but looking back at before...

1. Bad PTA experience. I tried it twice, was made to feel like shit twice and never bothered again.
   
2. I used to help out in class but there came a point where I realised I cannot handle large groups of children over a certain age.
   
3. Bad memories of my parents' PTA involvement when I was at school.
   
4. DS has never been in clubs outside school where volunteering is involved.
   
5. I wouldn't have a clue what other organisations use volunteers or how people get involved without any connection to the organisation. Just not even on my radar iyswim.