Interesting letter from a volunteer to non volunteers

[Narnia72]

Volunteering

I hope the link works. We often have discussions about "worthy" volunteers with regard to school activities, but this was a thought provoking read. It was timely for me as my son's football team is having to close the younger age group classes as there's no-one to coach (made up of volunteer coaches). It made me think about all the volunteers who give their time to run low cost groups for my kids; brownies, cubs, football, messy church, netball, youth drama are all run by volunteers. When you talk to them it's clear there is a circuit- they often start on the pre school committee, then progress onto PFA, governors, then to the clubs that their children are interested in. It's very much the same people, over and over again. Why is that?

It also reminded me of a conversation I had recently with a brown owl, who had been spoken to very rudely by a parent, complaining about the activities on offer, and why they didn't do more. When asked if she would help, this parent recoiled in horror and said "but I PAY you to do this for my kids". There's clearly a massive lack of understanding about what these roles are.

So, open to debate. Do your children benefit from activities run by volunteers? Do you value them? Do you volunteer yourself? If not, do you look to help in any way, either by donations to the group, or supporting fundraising events? Do you ever think to say thank you to the volunteers? This is not meant to be a goady post, I volunteer in a minor capacity at school, but although I do value what the external clubs do for my kids, I am guilty of taking the volunteers who run them very much for granted. I am going to say thanks to them all this week!

I'm trying to help the football team attract coaches (football sadly not something either me or DH are in any way skilled at), and have met with so much apathy and indifference, but also entitlement, as though the tiny sub they pay guarantees a 5 star service.

I know the letter writer is a bit sanctimonious, but thought there were some good points in and amongst. Thoughts?

I have volunteered all my married life but I was a stay-at-home Mum in the early 70's so dragged my toddlers around doing school holiday play activities. This made it possible for me to volunteer.
Then when working after dc went to school I was a Cub Scouts leader but then I had a very supportive dh so that I could volunteer in the evenings.
Now I am a Grandma and I have loads of time to volunteer, reading help at my local primary school, supporting Toddler Groups at my local church, catering at the Lunch Club for over 50's. I therefore find the people who are criticising volunteers equally sanctimonious. I worked full time until I was 50 and part-time until I was 70 so I know how to juggle my time. It is just being part of the community.

Squidgey - I agree and I tend to hand over cash for school fundraising events whenever possible. There comes a point when all the economically unviable fundraising activities just become a huge burden...

PTA is a PITA
I think stuff like school fairs are about the school coming together as a community - so have a value other than cash. The fundraising events are borderline masochistic - so much work and effort for such small returns, and not that much fun, just a duty for everyone.
I'd rather set up a direct debit .

I volunteer a lot to build up my cv. I volunteer in specific industries. Yes it makes me feel good but i know im doing it really for me. But i do do a good job, im reliable and im committed. Am i the only one who does that?

I worked as a Cub Leader. This not only involves attending meetings but preparing sessions, organising trips, going camping etc etc. I also worked full time and had a home to manage. I was always upset by the 'grateful' parents who thanked me but were just 'too busy' when we put out for more helpers. Why did they assume they were busier than the volunteers? Did they think their time was more valuable? I don't know.

Why did they assume they were busier than the volunteers? Did they think their time was more valuable?

I am one of those parents. I'm hugely grateful and appreciative. I don't think my time is more valuable, there just literally isn't any, not regularly. I could sporadically turn up to help at things if the complex combo of many children, erratic work pattern, own poor health and elderly relative allowed. But that's not much use. And it's isn't just time it's head space.

In actual fact I am busier than the bloke who runs my kids' scout group, for instance.

I'm a serial volunteer as well and always have been - as were my parents and now my kids. Scouts / school governors / running community pub etc etc. so was interested in the idea that the lifestyle has been 'passed on' - never thought about that. To all those who think we are the sanctimonious ones - truthfully, in my case it has always been for selfish reasons. When my DC were young being involved with Scouts actually got me out of the house and gave me a social life and a great circle of friends. Now my children are grown up I still do a lot of volunteering - mainly in local primary school, including teaching on a voluntary basis. I work full time and for me making stuff for school, running IT activities, being a governor etc is relaxation and, yes, it's my 'me-time' - it's a hobby which I really enjoy. I really don't care what other people do - no judgment, it might just not be their 'thing'. I definitely get far more out of it than I put in. So no, I don't feel virtuous - but giggly evenings spent making 30 superhero capes with a load of friends and a load of wine is more fun, for me, than say a pamper night at a health farm. Whatever presses your buttons.

I volunteered in my locals school when I needed to get back into work after having had the kids and a marriage break up. I did enjoy it and 'think' I made a difference somewhere but it was mainly to get me back on track and to support the course I was taking.

A few months down the line, I landed myself a job (in another school) and my volunteering definitely helped. ( I got a reference out of it too!)
I think my volunteering was mainly for my own benefit though

Now we have a lady who volunteers to come in a and read each week with the children which really helps ease the pressure as we have to get all of them in at least once a week (some 3 x). However, i try not to talk to her around break times because when she starts, she doesn't stop so I don't get to have a break or my coffee. :(

Now working full time, No, I would not volunteer.
I have 3 young children, work 30 hours a week and am on my own. I am also finishing my studying. I don't even have the time to do the washing.

The idea of volunteering as something passed on is really interesting.

My mum volunteered with my school when I was younger (extra adult for swimming, stalls at fetes, etc) as she was a SAHM til I was 8 and then worked part time (officially, in actuality she probably did full time hours by the time she'd done all the extra work at home). Once she was working I think she did less volunteering but still did things like the fete through her job. My dad worked full time with extra jobs in evenings and weekends so didn't volunteer and afaik never has. My mum now works full time in a different job with a longer commute so doesn't volunteer anymore.

As s teenager my only volunteering was a two week summer school for maths for Y6/Y7 with the Y10/Y11 students helping so I helped with that cause I was good at maths and we got to go on two trips with them. As an adult I didn't do anything til my late twenties when I fell into it accidentally.

I know a mother/daughter Brownie leader team though. And husband/wife Scout/guide leaders.

I think it's just seeing volunteering as something normal. It's like jobs, if your parents are both shift workers that's your normal, if your parents have 9-5 min-fri jobs you can't imagine life with shifts. Also if your parents volunteer often children are dragged along and roped into it as well (I used to have to help man the fete stall, a friend who's mum was church warden still gets brought to events to help run stalls or serve drinks)

I don't really volunteer at school. The PTA meetings are at 6pm and I don't get home til 6.30. Ditto, brownies - starts at 6.

I have offered both help for things like activities, but never been asked. Mr Foo and I do frequently have to be parent helpers on school trips or brownie trips because of our girl's disability.

I am a volunteer for Bliss, the special care baby charity though. Mos of this involves evenings and weekends so it is easier to do. I would be far more involved in the school stuff if it was out with working hours, but it is hard to adjust working hours to suit. We have to take so much time off for meetings and doctor / therapy appointments.

I do give them plenty of money though! For example, our government has deemed it unnecessary for me to pay for school meals despite the fact We're both higher rate tax payers. Frankly it's ridiculous so I donate that amount to the school. Also, invariably any of the "bring a pound" things see a tenner thrown in by us. I'd love to,give time AND money, but it's just not possible.

I'm always grateful for the volunteers who do stuff for children and will always tell them so.

I volunteered for 5 years at an orchestral ensemble which performs 3x per year, and has about 4x pre-concert rehearsals in the evenings each time. The kids involved are all teenagers (16-18, typically); there were 25-30 of them. I would make tea/biscuits for the mid-evening break, wash up and help to set up/pack away the stands and chairs etc, pick up litter afterwards, drop the keys back to the church warden, be there for safe-guarding ... I would be there about 4 hours altogether. I was just a parent, and there were just 2-3 of us who kept things going.

Other parents would come, drop the kids, zoom off; then hover just inside the door at pick-up, staring at their feet. When the music finished, they would be beckoning to the kids to hurry. The kids would put their instruments in their cases and bustle off. The race to leave the car park was crushing. Meanwhile 2-3 of us cleared everything away, without help. I work full-time, and I was tired: it would be late by the time we got home.

Why were they so entitled? There was no excuse: one chair each, one stand each, pick up your own rubbish, help us carry the stands to our cars. Is it so much to ask?

So yes - entitled, lazy, rude ... and perfectly able, but unwilling, to help. Quite literally as bad as the ill-mannered teenagers themselves. We weren't asking for a large investment of time: 5 minutes, max. The orchestra was free, and very popular. What possible excuse was there?

katvic

Did you ever ask them to? I'm sure the kids wouldn't just walk away if they were told at the end of every lesson they had to stack their chair and fold their stand away. Make it a simple rule from now on. They stack them away or they leave the group.

As I mentioned earlier, I am a Brownie leader. There is no denying that I volunteer because I gain something from it - a unit for my DD (although she has now left), a new social circle, a chance to spread the word about a movement that was important to me as a child, and the chance to have a positive influence on other children in my community.

However, that's only half the story. I can't pretend I enjoy attending Safe Space courses, first aid courses, doing the accounts and getting them audited, 'helping' parents who are too busy or disorganised to help themselves (who don't bother reading or responding to emails, or who put letters in the recycling without reading them, or can't remember to collect their children at the end of a residential and lack the imagination to think that maybe, just maybe, Brown Owl might want to go home to her own family now and that apologising profusely would be good). At these times my volunteering is definitely altruistic.

My DD aged 4 does a music class where they are expected to pick up and put away their mat that they have sat on at the end. Why on earth wouldn't you expect 16-18 year olds to clear their stuff away? They certainly would be used to it from school!

Why on earth wouldn't you expect 16-18 year olds to clear their stuff away?

I'm not sure that's the issue here! Especially as it seems none of the parents made their child clear their things away either

First Mrs DV.

In what way beatrix (FYI the smiley doesn't make it any less of a personal attack)
The emoticon wasn't meant as a friendly smile, so much as a "I'm being so much more blunt than usual, but what the hell, here goes!".

I have been a volunteer for years. I am a carer at home and I support people in my work
Well done, maybe you're not selfish and entitled then.

But you think I am a selfish entitled because I express a view that you don't agree with
No. I don't think I've ever thought someone sounds selfish and entitled just because I disagree with their views.

But you said this: Some people seem to love the idea that they are undervalued and that the non volunteers are selfish entitleds who despise them and their hard work. It gives them purpose. And it's hard to read that as anything other than catty and snidely dismissive of people and the good work they do.

I dunno, maybe as a teacher I don't understand people complaining about parents not pitching in to help pack away an activity that their children had taken part in. At the end of a lesson at school I don't go around putting equipment away, I get the kids to do it. Maybe really young kids can't ferry things to a car park but 16-18 year olds certainly should.

I have always volunteered, from starting a guide company to working for the C.A.B. I have met many lovely people, who have taught me a lot.
I have met many quietly, heroic people, who lives are very humbling. Volunteering has saved me from loneliness, helped me to achieve things I didn't think possible and it has always been fun.
Have I got more out than I put in? Yes, a hundred fold!

I have always volunteered, from starting a guide company to working for the C.A.B. I have met many lovely people, who have taught me a lot.
I have met many quietly, heroic people, who lives are very humbling. Volunteering has saved me from loneliness, helped me to achieve things I didn't think possible and it has always been fun.
Have I got more out than I put in? Yes, a hundred fold!

I have always volunteered, from starting a guide company to working for the C.A.B. I have met many lovely people, who have taught me a lot.
I have met many quietly, heroic people, who lives are very humbling. Volunteering has saved me from loneliness, helped me to achieve things I didn't think possible and it has always been fun.
Have I got more out than I put in? Yes, a hundred fold!

I have always volunteered, from starting a guide company to working for the C.A.B. I have met many lovely people, who have taught me a lot.
I have met many quietly, heroic people, who lives are very humbling. Volunteering has saved me from loneliness, helped me to achieve things I didn't think possible and it has always been fun.
Have I got more out than I put in? Yes, a hundred fold!

I have always volunteered, from starting a guide company to working for the C.A.B. I have met many lovely people, who have taught me a lot.
I have met many quietly, heroic people, who lives are very humbling. Volunteering has saved me from loneliness, helped me to achieve things I didn't think possible and it has always been fun.
Have I got more out than I put in? Yes, a hundred fold!

I volunteer a fair bit in my kids activities, but also for adults.

I don't mind if people don't volunteer provided they accept the fact that their child may miss out on something if they don't. Volunteers can not make everything available to everyone. (If you want more certainty, go pay for a service instead, although even then there might be waiting lists for some activities).

Will never forget the time I organised a disco/sleepover for girls at a church hall. Had enough volunteers to support 50 attendees. Oh the torrent of abuse I received at the hands of a non-volunteering parent of the 51st child: 'how dare you turn my DD away, she is as entitled to be here as anyone else...rant...rage..."

Well, no actually, to accomodate your DD, i would have to turn away someone else. How about YOU volunteer to help, and then your DD can stay, as well as 9 others!

No, no, too hard, can't possibly...

Well, fair enough, but then stop yelling at me!

Some people really ARE entitled and selfish.

I'm the Beaver Leader & the Leader of another group and my DH is the Cub Leader in our local Scout Group and our DC also volunteer in it too. I also am in the PTA and my DH volunteers with another two groups as well.

My DH works full time and also works extra hours every week whereas I'm a SAHM. As I'm the leader in both groups I do all the paperwork and 99% of the organising and also quite a lot of my DH's paperwork too.
We also have 5 DC of our own and therefore busy lives!

MilkTwoSugarsThanks your post really stood out to me as I suffer from depression, anxiety and now an agonising chronic illness!
These all mean there are days I simply cannot leave the house, I haven't been in anyone else's house for least 18 months!! In fact there are days I can't do anything at all.
Yet 99% of the time, I still make it to Beavers and the other group I volunteer with and run a full and varied programme of which I am extremely proud.... unfortunately not as much to the PTA meetings.

No!!! I absolutely do not think I am better than anyone else and I really resent your opening sentence about it being smug judgemental bollocks!!
Do you have any DC and are they in any groups?

The thanks I get in return are second to none and I do not mean presents, etc... I mean the smiles from the kids, the look on their face when they do something new for the first time, when they stay at their first Beaver camp, the parents making it clear that they appreciate all these things and of course the friends that I have made doing these things.
Scouting has made me focus on other people and other things and on days when I feel like curling up in a ball and just giving up, it and my family pull me back for which I'll always be thankful!

My parents never volunteered at anything!
My DH and I both got into volunteering a few years ago because we seen how much our DC enjoyed and developed in these groups and wanted to 'give something back'!

Oh dear.. does that sound smug? Apologies, I really didn't mean it too!!

Our school got rid of the PTA because of all the whining from the Mummy Martyrs.

Is great, there is now a 'voluntary' contribution added on to the fees for the year. You can choose to pay it all at once, or installments or not at all if it is too much. You can even increase the amount and pay extra or just a little. It raises way more than the other stuff.

No more fucking bake sales and fetes and bullshit and no more being being guilted.

Guess who complained? The same Mummy Martyrs that had been complaining that no-one ever helped...

For outside of school stuff, if we can't help out in some way then the kids don't do it. The only 'volunteer' led activity that we have at the moment is soccer and everyone in our team pulls their kid's weight. If for some reason we couldn't I would pull DS2 out.

I don't carry other people, haven't got time/energy etc.