to think the nanny is crossing boundaries?

[marathonman]

Which of these issues that I've had with a school wraparound plus occasional overnights nanny would bother or concern you the most? One primary school aged DC.

1. Showering/getting ready for work or nights out whilst supervising DC
2. Helping herself to food/toiletries when doing wraparound not overnights
3. Timekeeping issues - lateness arriving in mornings, not getting DC to school on time
4. Sleeping with DC in parents bed on overnight
5. Taking DC for own medical appointment rather than asking for cover
6. Asking parents to come home early on a babysitting night then going out and calling in sick then next day

I would just like reference for what other parents think would be an issue...

None frankly, sack her

If she is turning up not showered and dressed and is STILL late getting DC to school that is not acceptable. I would not expect them to shower and dress at their workplace!
Sleeping in my bed would be really weird for me. And I had a nanny who took my DCs to her doctors appointment, to obtain contraception, leading to my having to explain periods to my 5 year old DD
Food is ok - I used to make sure I always had food my vegetarian sitter could eat and she always knew she could help herself to whatever.

I wouldn't put up with any of them, but the sleeping with the children in the adult bed is awful! Get rid of her!

I'm a nanny and I would have an issue with all of them if I was a parent. Time for her to go I think !!!

I think that she's totally taking liberties, shocking, and your dc is 7 I think you said....taking dc to drs and late to school is outrageous. Sleeping with DC completely inappropriate as is everything else on your list. All unacceptable I reckon.

Personally don't think hourly rate is bad at all. Where I am the range is between £8-£12. Overnights, no idea but I think some people need to chill the f out calling you exploitative etc.! It's not like she's working whilst sleeping is it IMO.

Get rid of her sharpish!

Good luck

She sounds awful.

I look after an 8 year old in the school holidays (for £10ph, which is more than i get for being a TA during term time) I have taken the child to the doctors with me, but it was only a blood test so I knew she wasn't going to see or hear anything that she shouldn't, I wouldn't for example take her to get my test results, in case they were bad, or for a smear test, contraception etc and I did ask the parents if they were ok with it first.

Sharing a bed with 7 year old would worry me, I have occasionally laid on top of the covers next to a child who is having trouble settling and then snuck out once they've gone to sleep but sharing a bed regularly, for no apparent reason sets off alarm bells to me, its a massive safeguarding no no!

I used to be a nanny, am now a mum

showering at work unless there is a rare exception or previous agreement or overnight, not ok, but not a sackable offence. As a mum if my nanny overslept and the choice was come in late or come in and shower once there I would probably choose the latter. As a daily thing no, and I'd be having a conversation about it. As for supervision, is your child at risk when you are showering? It isn't a supervision issue for me it is taking the piss thing... ditto taking naps unless you know... e.g. nanny comes in with bad cold and says "I'm here but I'm sick, I will need to lie down this afternoon".

Using food. I would expect a nanny to eat at any time the child she was looking after was eating or would normally eat (if child is sick). I worked as a nanny for ten years and it was standard at every job no matter what hours I worked. If you don't want to pay for food it should have been specified in the interview and you should pay more. I would want my nanny to eat what my child was eating, 1) nanny is more likely to cook well 2) it is weird for the nanny to always eat something different and is confusing for a child. My employers usually had a tub in the fridge for special off limits things or a separate fridge in the garage or pantry for their food. Most of my employers left money for me to buy other food if I wanted it... e.g. french bread to go with the spaghetti and meatballs I was making for supper. Frankly it is unlikely I would take a job without food unless they paid much higher... it is kind of weird.

Using toiletries "please don't use our toiletries other than hand soap, if you would like to leave some of your own for your own use I will provide a basket for you to store them in."

being late, it happens on occasion... maybe once or twice a year tops. If it is habitual and not corrected then that would be a reason to let a nanny go IMO

sleeping in your bed... hmm hard one. If kid is sick and/or having nightmares or trouble settling it might be necessary and I'd never expect a nanny to share a single bed with a seven year old. How horribly uncomfortable. Otherwise not acceptable. Perhaps provide a large blow up mattress in case of this? Nanny is unlikely to use that unless she is desperate.

Medical appts... I took kids to medical appointments but it was agreed on before hand if not an emergency. If she works two jobs then she may be limited when she can go. Again a discussion "Please let us know if you have an appointment you need to go to so we can arrange cover if we don't want "sally" to go with you"

Calling in a sickie. Yeah, I'd be pissed about that big time. Really pissed. However, if she is throwing up and has a bad head do you really want her with your kid? I would make it clear though if she did it again we would be done. I would also worry that if she was that off her head she may still have alcohol in her system the next day while looking after my child (I really hope she isn't drinking to excess the night before then driving your DC).

I know I'm missing the point of the thread here - have only read halfway through too.

I just wanted to ask, is £30 per night really illegal? I've had a situation where I was asked to work over night for that amount. My usual shift finished at 6pm and restarted at 10am. I worked through - so, 10am from day 1 through to 6pm day 2.

All of them are taking the piss.

I particularly wouldn't like 4, because I hate anyone touching our bed. Literally can't bear it. It would drive me crazy if another woman had slept in it with our child.

Sounds like she's young and doesn't realise what she's doing. I don't think she sounds very responsible. I wouldn't want to leave my child with her.

I've been a professional live in nanny for years.
None of them are ok. Especially if not discussed with you.
Once I asked if it was ok for me to get ready whilst on duty( I lived in house, mum knew I was going out and she was running late. She was fine because I asked)
If you're aware and have agreed things then that's different.
Food however, if on duty over meal times then yes, I would expect to be fed.
There must be mutual respect and expectations set. Never have unresolved issues with someone who takes care of your children.

I've worked as a nanny, 3 and 6 are totally unacceptable.

4 is quite weird but only because it's the parents bed. If they were little and in with you not so much. I think it depends how long you've been with the family.

At the end of the day you should really like and trust the person looking after your children. You should certainly be happy to feed them, let them nip to the doctors with your child in tow (I think any sensible nanny would try their best to fit it into the normal routine anyway) and what's the biggie in them getting ready to go out now and then if children are fed, bathed, ready for bed and happy.

I think it sounds like you just don't really like them and you need a new nanny.

3 and 6 is out of order.

I have a live in nanny but I run a relaxed house so most of those other things don't bother me. My kid often sleeps in her bed with her and will take her to the docs for a standard appointment if it's the holidays for example. I supply all food and give her an allowance for toiletries etc but she is a live in and been with me since my kid was 4 months old (she's almost 8 years now)

Gosh reading through these messages some people have very strange ideas about how they should treat the person looking after the most important thing in their lives. I was treated almost like an older sister and we had a great relationship. 18 years later we are still in contact and it's lovely.

Ps I also looked after children some 20 years ago and am still in touch with the family but I treated them with respect as they did me. I would never have ever done any of those things except yes, food, I think for over nights that's acceptable but unless she's live in then not the daytime unless that's what's agreed in advance. Nicer for dc if they eat together and is more of a family/personal choice.

Yes, Southern, it definitely is illegal. See below, from the government website - www.gov.uk/night-working-hours/hours-and-limits. Report your exploitative employer and he will have to pay you what he owes you in arrears x 200%.

The OP's nanny is working a "sleep shift" as below. To those who don't like it, tough - the law is there and should be followed. If someone chooses not to follow it, then they're being exploitative scum and deserve the repercussions of being caught.

"The National Minimum Wage applies to night workers but there isn’t a higher night working rate.
A sleep shift in the night period (eg care worker) counts as working hours if the worker is both:
-on call
-in the workplace
Workers on a sleep shift must be paid the National Minimum Wage."

All of them, because together they display an unacceptable attitude towards her job. I think you need a new nanny.
When you get a new one make sure your expectations are clear, and you keep up shift to shift communication with her.

4 by far the worst. I don't think it's ok at all to co-sleep with someone else's child, unless you've had prior conversations about it and explicit consent given by parents.

I think,it depends how long you've known the nanny and specific circumstances. If they'd walked back from somewhere and got soaked through, then a shower is reasonable. I'd even lend clothes if theirs were wet. If it was a special event and they were working late for me then likewise I'd be ok.
Food I would never begrudge anyone. If it's there they can eat it. Similarly with toiletries.
Lateness I'd be less pleased about unless there was a genuine reason.
Sleeping with little one in bed might be kinder than them not getting any sleep or being upset. I've had friends children stay over and ended up in bed with me. If I trusted them enough to leave my child with them I'd trust them enough to sort out sleeping arrangements.
The medical appointment I wouldn't have an issue with.
As I see it, it's not what others think is reasonable but what you think is reasonable and any deviation from that needs a discussion.

Actually, the key word in the gov.uk link above is 'regularly'. An occasional night which is outside of normal contractual hours would be different.

If it is defined in the contract as part of the job, then it would be working hours and count as a sleep shift.

I was a nanny working 3 days a week from 8am-7pm.... this is my opinion.

1. Showering/getting ready for work or nights out whilst supervising DC- I was allowed to use the wii workout and shower while little one napped. It was agreed before I started. While the children were awake. Not on at all, unless doing overnight care and it's a morning shower like a parent would do. I occasionally put a little make up on while children were in the bath. As a parent would.

1. Helping herself to food/toiletries when doing wraparound not overnights. I ate when the children ate. I ate the food from the house, the same as the children. Children need role models. Sitting together to eat a meal is better than an adult telling them how to eat without modelling it.

1. Timekeeping issues - lateness arriving in mornings, not getting DC to school on time. Absolutely not on. An employee should always be on time (or early- if I was early I would make a cup of tea and hang out in a different room until start time). Definitely should be getting children to school on time unless some sort of crazy situation which makes it impossible.

1. Sleeping with DC in parents bed on overnight - if you're providing a bed for her to sleep in she should be sleeping in that. If you have not then she needs to sleep in your bed. Is the issue having your children in the same bed? If so, why? You need to make it clear as to where each person should sleep.

1. Taking DC for own medical appointment rather than asking for cover . Depends on the appointment and how often she works for you. When I was a nanny 5 days a week from 8-7 I always took little ones to doctor's appointment with me. If it was a personal matter then I would let the parent know and either they would give me time off or say that my mum or (at the time he was my) boyfriend, or friend could come to the appointment and wait in the waiting room with them. Going to the doctors can be a good lesson if it's for a throat infection, injections etc. Again it's about modelling behaviours and real life situations. When I nannied 3 days a week I could make appointments on my days off so wouldn't have to do this. When I was pregnant and nannying I even travelled further than necessary for my check ups so that I could do them on my day off rather than the local clinic during my working day.

1. Asking parents to come home early on a babysitting night then going out and calling in sick then next day- absolutely not, whatever the agreements in the contract are they should be upheld. Calling in sick is no good either unless they are genuinely sick.

I'd be tempted to give 4 weeks notice and find someone new. But some of your problems are unreasonable. In my opinion.

1. Depends how old your DC are, but not great tbh.
2. Wouldn't be bothered at all.
3. This alone would be a deal breaker for me.
4. Unless DC were sick, I think this is a no.
5. Not overly fussed as long as it is not a regular thing.
6. Just no.

In summary, I think I would be seeking alternatives OP, sorry ;-(

1, 3, 4 and 6 mostly. She sounds very cheeky and entitled. Sleeping in your bed.

1. Just about OK as a one-off. Depends if it was a big night out and you knew in advance that they were tight for time.

1. Food is fine - we always expect nannies to help themselves to food and drink freely. Toiletries I guess depends on whether they used a quick spray of your deodorant if they'd got a bit hot and sweaty, or raked through all the cupboards and helped themselves to products.

1. Absolutely not on.

1. Definitely weird, unless the child got up in the night and jumped into bed with them.

1. Would be ok with a baby, can't imagine why they'd want a school-aged child in the doctor with them.

1. Odd behaviour, why agree to babysit if you don't want to.

All of what you describe together sound pretty bad and I wouldn't want a nanny working with us who was like this. Unless (and this is being very lenient) it was a very long-term nanny, they were almost part of the family, and this behaviour could reflect that level of familiarity.

No no and most definitely no. It could be the arrangement is too casual and needs to be formalised, but I'd get a new nanny and set firm guidelines.

She sounds like a member of your family not a person who is employed by you.