To shut her in the front room

[shesgrownhorns]

Dd has been an absolute little madam recently. She's been pushing the boundaries for a while now, which is normal I suppose and I'm a very easy going mum but I've had enough of the bed hopping, endless long goodnights, etc. She's 7 almost 8. I've put my foot down and decided that enough is enough. When I say enough is enough I simply mean that one story plus a few chapters of an audio book plus endless cuddles is enough and she's just got to stay in her own bed when it's lights out.

Dd was not happy with this change in routine and has been downstairs and planted herself defiantly on the sofa for about 8 times. Poor dh has taken her back up only to be immediately followed back down.

In the end I've just asked him to stick her in the front room, and tell her not to come out. Of course she came out. I put her back in and gave her a book of the book shelf and told her stay in there and read that if you're so wide awake.

I looked in on her and asked if she was ready to go up yet and she just looked up from the book she was pretending to read and stuck her tongue out at me.

I'm thinking the next port of call if this fails is the cellar, or maybe out on the front step.

Not really, but you might know where I'm coming from....

AIBU and if I am, what should I do?????

I dunno, I think you can parent and friend your children. We certainly do not follow the authoritative, disciplinarian method of parenting displayed by many here and our kids are polite, kind and well adjusted...Even though we rarely have to tell them what to do.

They also rarely get out of bed, even though they know that when they do they are received warmly. They go to bed a bit later than some, have about 15 books in bed followed by lots of cuddles. If they need more they call us or some and get us, which rarely happens. Of course they both went through phases of being up and down in the early evening, each time we would get up, pick them up, have a cuddle as we went back up. Tuck them in, check everything was ok, give them a kiss and go. If they needed more we would like with them for a couple of minutes. On very rare occasions if one of them wasn't feeling 100% or was unsettled we would just bring them down to cuddle and sleep on our laps for a bit.

Why so defensive if you are secure in your parneting Farendole? Its a mere difference of opinion from a stranger.

Farandole and that is because your parents sat every night with her until she went to sleep? Presumably, they didn't treat you the same?

The thing is, you have to parent the child you have, not the one you want to have. If I had only ever had DD, then I would agree. Children should be put to bed, awake, alone to fall asleep themselves. She was happy to do that as a baby, would ask to sleep when she was tired. But I don't have just DD, and she was born second. And DS needs the reassurance from one of us in the evening. Yes it can be inconvenient, but he is our child and we have a responsibility towards him. On the flip side, he is ultra confident meeting new people, in new places and will happily go off and make friends whereas DD is incredibly shy.

We are perfectly happy with our routine thanks, it works for us and DH and I get an evening together.

What makes you think I'm defensive? Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are defensive.

Ex, I honestly don't know why my sister has sleep issues. Families are complex things, her childhood was very different from mine for a number of reasons including our brother passing away as a toddler. But my point is that I know at least one adult who can't self settle.

dd did this. We increased the levels of exercise in her daily routine - swimming, dance etc most evenings. Knocked out like a light.

Farandole So although she can't self-settle, it could have absolutely nothing to do with your parents sitting with her whilst she goes to sleep. (Did they?) Which is the point that is being made by a pp.

Absolutely essential is that you set the ground rules with everyone and stick to them. Agree bedtime routine. Stick to it. No extra anything. Then you have only two choices. One is to repeatedly take her upstairs until she gives up. My brother in law did this. First night he got to 68 times. I think it was better on nights two and three! The second option is to take her upstairs once and then say the next time she gets out of bed she will lose [insert privilege or toy]. Things she could lose would be 30pence of pocket money per time; a toy confiscated for 24 hours. Actually there is a third thing you can do. You can also do a star chart. Each night she stays in bed she gets a star and at the end of the week if she has all 7 stars she gets to do something nice with you. Two and three would work well together. Negative reinforcement and positive reinforcement. It is infuriating but if you let her get you annoyed she will use this to get her way. The first thing is to agree the plan of attack with hubbie, then one of you should tell DD nicely what is going to happen if she gets up, and what will happen if she gets out. There is bound to be a tantrum. Tell her that if she gets out of bed she is "making a choice" and ask say "make the right choice tonight" every night. Good luck.

Ex, as I said previously, I don't know the cause, all I am saying is that yes, there are adults who can't self settle.

As many posters have said, parent the child you have.

But also bear in mind that the ability to fall asleep is a lifelong treasure.

They go to bed a bit later than some, have about 15 books in bed followed by lots of cuddles

Do you read them 15 stories? I assume I am misunderstanding?

I think it is fine making suggestions as to what might work, but it is very frustrating to hear people say 'this definitely will work'. For example, I have tried all the things that space suggested, and been very firm about them and yet they didn't make my five year old stay in bed.

I also think that the statements about a poster's sister not being able to self settle in her 50s is very different. Some people are life long insomniacs, it isn't lack of discipline that makes people unable to sleep, it is a myriad of factors, some more easily tackled than others.

Just throwing something else into the mix as there is a lot of advice on here about toughening up and discipline. My DD began a phase round about the same age of pushing the boundaries, toddler tantrums etc and so I thought problems at bedtime was just an extension of this. It turned out that she had developed a terrible fear of death and was so terrified of me dying in the night that the long drawn out bedtime, the defiance, the rudeness was her way of avoiding the moment I went out of the bedroom door and left her. It was quite a long time before she was able to vocalise what the problem was or how she felt 😕

Take her to bed, 1 story, goodnight, if she comes downstairs, take her back to bed, say good night, if she comes down again, take her back no speaking to her at all. Tablet taken away. Yes, you and DH do need to be on the same page stand firm, and mean what you say, otherwise you will have a nightmare on your hands in a few years. It wont be easy, and will wear you out for a time, but you have to stick to your guns.

Not misunderstanding, we read about 15 books with them. Not novels obviously!

Jesus, you're a better parent than I am. I think I'd fall asleep after the second!!!

How can you still speak after 15? I limit it to one long or 2 short stories. Then once the music is on it's silence!

Have only read OP's posts.

Is she jealous of older wonderDB, does he stay up longer, is he treated like another adult in the threesome of DM DF and DB, is she envious of time you and DH have. Do you come in late in the evening so she hardly sees one of you and she feels she is missing out.

It does seem attention seeking. Just wondering why.

They're only short, you know the type, big things ones. They just choose a handful each, takes about 45 mins. Sometimes they nod off towards the end, DH (who does bedtimes now) sometimes does too!

They all love it.

Sometimes fewer obviously, if it is really late for example.

Haven't read the thread admittedly. But she's 7. You tell her to go to bed and she goes to bed. She can't just come down and sit on the sofa. That's not how it works. She is not the boss of your house. Sounds like she has zero respect for you.

How about at dinner time say something like 'We have a problem with bedtime and you getting out of bed. What do you think we could do to solve it?'.
You could write down a little brainstorm and then circle the favourite ideas.
Then she has had input and a bit of power so it miiiiiggggghtttt be more likely she will try to follow through. But I agree with what everyone else has said - consistency is the key (and it's really hard, especially when you're knackered!).

bertiesgal errr, not sure why you'd think I was defensive about my parenting

I most certainly did not pick on the clearly abusive posts as standard parenting-that's what I was accused of by patchwork when I stated that I didn't know what to say to parents who think that putting their child to bed and expecting them to go to sleep without being up for hours is abuse-hence my reply.

If you RTFT you'll see that I contributed to the post with the Supernanny type go to bed and get to sleep method involving repeatedly but quietly putting them back to bed which worked effectively for all four of my biters. I also lightheartedly said that I wouldn't accept bare faced cheek and disrespect from one of my biters who was already acting in an inappropriate manner.

You'll also see posts from parents like this
Really? The disrespect for children oozing through all these awful posts about banning them from getting up after bedtime, no conversation, tell at them, leave them in the dark, lock their rooms (ignoring the two horribly abusive posts) don't scream disrespect to you? Because they do to me. I wouldn't treat a non sentient animal like that, let alone my child.

who appear to claim that even Supernanny's method is cruel and unusual punishment because you're demanding they go to sleep or not communicating by not entering into a bedtime debate with them or leaving them alone, in the dark (although having just re-read the feed that may also be aimed at a 'go to bed and leave her downstairs in the dark' comment).

I absolutely stand by my parenting and whilst I am there as a friend for them I am a parent first because that's what they need me to be.
My biters are all well adjusted, loving, well loved children who are happy to go to bed at bedtime as they understand that they need their sleep.

DS had terrible sleep problems at one stage. Anxiety and ADHD each played a part. We have tried just about everything and eventually paid a sleep advisor who came and spent an evening with us and helped develop a plan. It took a while to really work but it is much better now, and we still stick to a routine:
• No TV and definitely no tablet/laptop/phone after about 6pm/tea time. The tablet in particular is stimulating her to stay awake for longer. Get it out the house if necessary.
• After tea is cleared away we have a wind down half hour where at least one parent spends quality time doing something relaxing with him (painting, colouring, puzzles, some crafty thing)
• PJ's and teeth and 10 minutes reading to him. We were advised against reading to him much longer than that.
• Now he is old enough, we leave him to read to himself, bed side light only for 10 minutes, then we go back in, night night and switch his light off.
• We used to take his bed side light out the room and at one stage removed the bulb from the main light in his room.

We get the process started earlier when we can, over tired child makes it all worse and we all end up yelling at each other, not good sleep prep.