To shut her in the front room

[shesgrownhorns]

Dd has been an absolute little madam recently. She's been pushing the boundaries for a while now, which is normal I suppose and I'm a very easy going mum but I've had enough of the bed hopping, endless long goodnights, etc. She's 7 almost 8. I've put my foot down and decided that enough is enough. When I say enough is enough I simply mean that one story plus a few chapters of an audio book plus endless cuddles is enough and she's just got to stay in her own bed when it's lights out.

Dd was not happy with this change in routine and has been downstairs and planted herself defiantly on the sofa for about 8 times. Poor dh has taken her back up only to be immediately followed back down.

In the end I've just asked him to stick her in the front room, and tell her not to come out. Of course she came out. I put her back in and gave her a book of the book shelf and told her stay in there and read that if you're so wide awake.

I looked in on her and asked if she was ready to go up yet and she just looked up from the book she was pretending to read and stuck her tongue out at me.

I'm thinking the next port of call if this fails is the cellar, or maybe out on the front step.

Not really, but you might know where I'm coming from....

AIBU and if I am, what should I do?????

Yes and routine is essential!

Id also explained about the knock on effect of feeling too tired the next day and that it's now adult child free time.

I would rather sit in the corner of the bedroom whilst he drifts off, even if I had to do it for the next ten years, than give him a punishment that scared the life out of him. I'm all for boundaries and punishment if necessary, but I wouldn't lock another adult in a room (eg someone with dementia or learning disabilities) no matter how much they test my patience, so I wouldn't do it to my five year old either.

Omni - my friends had explained about feeling tired but it wasn't until her DS had experienced being really tired that it made a difference

Some things that have helped here are a night light (or two), a clock in the room, a CD player and a selection of audio books / soothing music / meditation CDs. I know that sometimes a child can't sleep, and I don't expect them to lie in the dark awake for hours, but I do expect them to listen to a CD quietly, with the odd toilet trip / drink of water.

I think you probably need to re-set her expectations of what happens when she can't sleep, maybe bribe her with CDs to be earned for each night she doesn't reappear? And definitely avoid lie-ins, otherwise her body clock will just make it harder and harder for her to go to sleep at a reasonable time.

Honestly, she won't hate you. IME children hate having boundaries imposed, but are then very relieved and happy to have them.

Rufus and scruff that's awful I'm interested to know what your relationship is like now?

She is old enough to understand consequences and so I would make it very clear in the morning (when she is calm) what the bedtime routine is to be and that if she continues to push boundaries then there will be consequences. Explain the consequence and also explain that it is entirely her choice on how she proceeds. Then stick to it.

I would just tell her how many hours sleep she needs to have and however long she spends fannying around in the evening will be how much earlier she goes to bed the following night!
And if you let her sit up with a book of course she's not going to think she has to go to bed because..erm..she doesn't have to go to bed does she? She can sit up with a book! If she's pushing the boundaries it's up to you to show her where they are.

My DS didn't sleep through the night until he was around 7. We tried having him in his own room but he would climb out if his cot and come and find us (clever thing would pile toys up in the cot and throw more on the floor to land on. When we removed those he removed his bedding and bunched it up to climb on). When I left my ex we ended up in a one bed so he had a bed in the corner of the bedroom. I had to sit in there with him every night. When we got a bigger place I had to supernanny him all night every night. By this time he was 5. We moved again that year and he had a lovely bedroom but still kept getting up. Trying to leave him just left him hysterical, like always. Just after his 6th birthday he was diagnosed with ASD. What clinched the diagnosis was the paediatrician asking "And how is his sleep?" And me responding along the lines of "Still like a newborn!!!"

DS was prescribed melatonin and that and 2 weeks of super nannying and he was sleeping through in his room at night! He needed classical music playing softly to get him to stay in bed and drift off, but as he reached 7 he was able to tell me that all the years he kept getting up was because he found it so hard to fall asleep and he was just laying in bed alone - he has super sensitive hearing and he could hear all these unexplained noises and was petrified and needed me.

He's nearly 10 now and takes his pill himself at night and takes himself to bed. He's never been able to cope with bedtime stories - they stimulate him too much. He prefers to put his classical music on and I don't hear from him until 7:45 the next morning.

It's been a very long road, but I found putting things in place for him to control his own environment (he has many PDA traits) and then being totally hands off is the way to go. This also extends to weekends and holidays when he doesn't take medication and is often awake until midnight - the rule is he doesn't get up and disturb me, he can use the toilet and get a drink of water but that's it. He's very good with rules (In fact I recently had to add another one that said if he felt ill he could disturb me as he hadn't realised it was allowed!) and anyway, for him it's boring and scary being up when I'm in bed, he much prefers his room with his music now!

Situations like this are very difficult to change because it's gone so far already for years. I'm not going to criticise your parenting because bedtimes are hard. However, you've had loads of good advice on here OP, and frankly, you aren't doing your daughter any justice - she needs to learn to follow rules, do what she's told, gain some independence, and be okay with being on her own. She also needs to learn that there are consequences for her bad behaviour. I hate to think what she will take from this when she's older and thinks she can still have her own way by being stubborn and rude.

I agree that talking to her, agreeing upon a routine e.g. 8pm - glass of warm milk/banana and talk/read with mum/dad, 8.20pm - shower and pajamas, 8.40pm - cuddles and bed-time story with mum/dad, 9pm - lights out. You specifically said that she has her dad around her little finger. Everyone has to be on board to make this work, and everyone needs to commit. You also mentioned her getting up in the morning - she needs ten hours' sleep at 8 years old, so I would be getting her up with your son because then she'll be tired by bed time.
You will be doing everyone a favour by sorting this out - your work, your relationship, her happiness and health, and the well-being of your family in general. It's not easy, but if you agree and be consistent, it will work. Rewards for good behaviour and quality time before she goes to sleep are also key.

Posted too soon - OP your DD is old enough for you to ask her why she keeps getting up at night. If there is a reason other than being bored/wanting attention then you must tackle it. If it isn't then you need to explain the importance of rest for everyone and that you and DH new grown up time. If it is a compromise that might work you should allow her to read quietly in bed but she should not be allowed to disturb everyone else. You should also be getting her up earlier if it's delaying you. It's her choice to fall asleep late buy your choice when to get her up.

And do not let DH be manipulated. Tag team, but you mustn't lose your temper and he mustn't indulge DD. Otherwise she will play you two off against one another, and not just at bedtime either.

I would have had a right go at her by now and told her to pack it in and behave. And that every ten minutes of defiance will equal half an hour of

I have three boys, two are just turned 8, and while they do chat and mess at bedtime, they don't keep coming downstairs and act like that.

Btw I do yell at them to pack it in quite frequently (two of them share a room and the youngest age 5 can be a pain) and they do. The older ones are quite content to go to bed tbh as they understand that the later they are to bed the more likely it is they'll be tired for school.

OP I also struggle with enforcing consequences but it's something you have to get used to.

Sounds like a good rule would be no tablet after X time. Then she has to stay in bed/in her room and lights off at bedtime. If she comes out of her room then she loses the tablet for the next day.

If you want you could let her read if she's not sleepy, but same rule - one step out of bedroom past lights out and she loses the tablet for the next day, no matter how well behaved she is!

I find removal of privileges much easier to enforce than other things because it's simple and doesn't require any specific action from me once it's done. - especially if you have a set routine for the end of her using it like dinnertime etc, so there's no wrestling involved! Plus, although they don't like it, I know that really it's quite a mild punishment and they can absolutely handle/cope with it. It's not like forcing them to stay in their room alone or smacking or something else which is actively supposed to be scary. It's just the symbolism and mild inconvenience really.

Have you tried boring lo to sleep? If my lo is getting too excited by her bedtime stories I turn to really boring books read in a quiet monotone. I have used many books and now know loads about architecture, birds, British churches, geology...

Of course children had ADHD in the 1970s. Just because it wasn't called that, it doesn't mean it didn't exist.

Dragging a child by the hair is disgusting and abusive. I'm shocked to read that. I was expecting to scroll up and hear that you'd been smacked or something else which was standard, now outdated, 1970s discipline. I'm not sure that dragging children by their hair and locking them in rooms was

For each night she won't go to bed nicely, take one of her toys away - permanently. Really bin it - it has to be gone for good. She probably won't last more than 2 or 3 nights.

This worked with my DD when she was 2.

Trust me, if one of mine kept coming downstairs he/she would not get a book and the front room to herself and as for the cheek and poking her tongue out to your face when she was already behaving in an inappropriate manner...WELL! She'd have been in bed faster than she thought humanly possible at that point, believe you me

I too subscribe to the put them to bed and they stay there school of bedtime parenting.

I always waited outside the room, gently but firmly returned the biter to their bed, tucking them back in each time they got up but after the first "No, now it's bedtime you need to stay in bed and get some sleep" it was in silence.
We made things clear from when they first had their 'big bed' (around 12-14 months) so the biters are/were bedtime veterans by 7.

It's worth the effort and stress but you need to remember that as this has obviously been allowed to go on to some degree for years the chances are it won't be a two, three or even a four night resolve. DH needs to find his inner strength and be fully onside as there's a good chance that this'll get bumpy.

What a load of guff littlescruff
Puling kids around by the hair is child abuse not good parenting!

There are some truly hideous sounding suggestions dressed up as discipline here, I'm horrified. I'll still with my "soft" approach I think.

I feel I can't really comment as I only have a baby but I do think it's important not to make threats you don't follow through.

Your dd isn't in charge but you are making her think she is.

What about respect for children as actual real life people? Not just adults in training?

What about respect for children as actual real life people? Not just adults in training?