To tell school & parents not to speak to DS again?

[lalalalyra]

Last week there was an incident in the library when some of DS's class were in there. DS was at a table with 2 other boys, they are all 8.

DS says he was getting a book from the shelf when he heard one boy cry and another make a 'raspberry' noise.

One boy is saying he blew a raspberry at the other boy. The other boy is saying the boy spat in his face, then blew the raspberry to cover it. However both bits are adamant that DS was looking and should be backing up their story. DS is absolutely adamant that he had his back to them as he was getting a book out.

Fwiw I believe DS because he absolutely does not get on with the boy who is being accused of spitting and the other boy is his best friend so I think if he could back up his friend then he would.

My issue is that he's been spoken too by the head twice, the deputy head three times and his class teacher a couple of times as well. I've had both mothers at my door demanding to speak to him and this morning I got a phone call from the school that he'd arrived very upset because one of the parents (I've no idea which one yet) tried to speak to him at the gate and he asked school to call me and ask me to collect him at the end of the day - this is a boy who is massively proud off his walking to and from school, it takes 4 minutes and last week when I was in for a pta thing wanted me to walk the long way round so he could still walk himself home with the little group.

Apparently the head is planning to speak to all three boys again tomorrow and the secretary said she would imagine, knowing the head, it would be made very plain to the other parent that approaching DS wasn't on.

Aibu to tell them today that I don't want anyone - school or parent - speaking to my DS again about this? He didn't see it. He hasn't changed his story since the first time he was asked. He has no reason to lie and I'm not wanting him pulled out of class again for anymore chats?

I'm livid that someone thought it acceptable to speak to him. I'm angry with myself for not thinking of it, but it was last week and he's been fine everyday, just a bit annoyed that he keeps having to repeat it. I know it's a potentially very serious incident but if he didn't see it he didn't see it.

Your poor son he don't need that if a mother ever came up to my son. There would be hell to pay. The school sounds useless. I would take this to ofsted your son is getting bullied not by other children by grown women. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Thanks everyone.

I shall see what the head has to say for herself tomorrow and then go from there. DS will be walking to school with me. He's been practising saying "My Mum says I have permission not to answer anymore questions about this as I've already said what I heard" tonight and he's much happier. He said he wasn't upset because they were shouting at him, but that he got a fright when they started yelling at each other and he wasn't sure what to do. So we've gone over a few things, and had a lot of hugs.

I've got quite a few concerns about the school now tbh. It was a poor school (in terms of results) and the last HT was brought in and she dragged it up quite a bit. This new HT seemed to give it a nicer edge (done away with attendance awards and replaced them with effort ones - little things that have given the kids things they can strive for and achieve), but the hold of discipline seems to have slipped. Even the parents were nervous knocking on the old heads door! I wasn't his biggest fan, but any bullying was stamped out properly, the kids were expected to be respectful to the staff (and the kids were treated with respect as an example) and little things seem to be slipping.

This all sounds awful op.

Regarding the chair of governors, yes it would probably be the vice chair initially if the chair has a conflict of interest, which he obviously does in this case. There will be a clerk to governors who manages administration and organisation of the gb, the details should be on the school's website or you could ask the office. You could contact the clerk explain that there is a conflict of interests for one governor and ask that the letter is passed to the appropriate person, or you could find out either the vice chair or the safeguarding lead governor (all schools should have one) and address it to them. Their details should, legally, be on the school's website with the governors names and the structure of the board, but if not you could try the Edubase website or if it's an academy, companies house website.

Check your school's complaints policy though as they often state that governors only consider complaints once they a written complaint has been made to the HT and a resolution hasn't been reached. Ours follows national guidance which suggests that if complaints cannot be resolved through the usual methods or are of a serious nature/relate to a senior member of staff of a governor then they are heard by a panel of two governors who have no prior knowledge of the issue (if you are worried the chair may have spoken to others) and a third independent person such as a governor of another school. As I say, this follows national guidance so is the norm for most schools but do check, as it can vary depending on the type of school.
Hope that helps.

I'm so glad I didn't join the governors last year. That would have added a whole heap of awkwardness to the issue. They've been buttering me up to join next year (I was pregnant last year so declined on that basis).

I know who they all are and who does what (although I'm not 100% sure who is the safeguarding one so I'll check as I'm sure it changed recentish). I do a lot of stuff in the school and used to work in schools so I had a rough idea it would be the vice-chair.

There's no chance of having any governors who haven't heard of the issue tbh. It's a small-school in a small town surrounded by small villages - every sneeze is public knowledge and the yelling happened right at the gates. There will be some sort of way to deal with it though.

It's odd though. I'm not a knee-jerker, I'm usually too much on the 'give them a chance to sort it' side, but it's thoroughly tempting to ring and find out if any other schools locally have places. I've had a gut feeling about the school for a couple of months.

Well done for calming down your son.

Hope your meeting with the head goes well.
As said upthread, the HT does have the power to ban parents from the school grounds and hanging round the gate. Obviously this is embarrassing when it is the wife of the chair of governors, but you should push how utterly unacceptable it is for this to happen to your child 'at the school gate'. The precise location is not so important as it is the school's treatment of the issue which caused the problem. If the HT lacks the balls to deal with this, then be very clear that you are already in touch with the police about the parents' aggression towards your child. YY to talking about safeguarding and putting your child at risk.

Please make a formal complaint as this must be shown to Ofsted when they come calling. If it is still a local authority school, write to the most senior director in education department (possibly a Director of People etc) outlining your concerns about the poor handling of behaviour within the school which has led to your child being bullied by children and parents.

I don't hold out a lot of hope though, and I think it may well be a good idea to look at other schools.

This seems to have been dealt with very badly by the school, allowing it to escalate so that the mothers end up in a screaming match at the school gates was an error indeed. This should have been resolved last week without any further reference to your DS surely - he didn't see anything! There is no need for multiple 'interviews' - the Head can't be following the behaviour policy?? Have you got a copy? Usually can be found online - school website.

Is the school an LEA one or an Academy? If it's an LEA one the LEA should be able to get another Chair in to investigate. I would recommend that when you talk to the Head you tell them (possibly again) that the repeated questioning of DS was unacceptable if others in the room had their word taken at face value,. I would also ask what action the school is going to take to make sure all parents are aware that they should not approach any child without a parent or carer present, or with prior permission. (The school should have made sure that the other parents involved knew your son had seen nothing).

If you cannot get a resolution from the Head, go to the LEA and get the LADO (Local Authority Designated Officer) and possibly the Director of Education involved - they should be able to either sort the Head and Chair out or get someone in to do it. It's unlikely the Vice-Chair would be able to sort it out, although it's worth a conversation.

This may sound over the top, but I've been bought in to do this type of complaint resolution in a school more than once (I have a national governance accreditation).

I would be furious in your position, no parent should ever approach a child about issues like this, especially as you had told them that they wouldn't be speaking to your ds. I would absolutely be calling 101 and involving the police, letter to the head, governors and LEA. The Chair of governors should resign, I know it was not him but his wife who approached your son, but it is totally inappropriate and they must have discussed it.

I hope your ds is ok, my youngest dd is 8, something like this would really upset and frighten her

Chair here (not THE Chair, a Chair!!) - I'd recommend that you go direct to the Diocesan safeguarding officer. Obviously if you get a good resolution tomorrow (is it half term next week where you live?) and you want to let it lie then fine, but really this is so outrageous as to warrant the Diocese being involved.

Chair here (not THE Chair, a Chair!!) I scrolled quickly and had a panic for a moment there!!

It's an LEA school and it's within the area I used to work in so I know the LADO and I know who I need to phone to get through to the Education bosses secretary. That side of things I'm confident on.

I just really don't need this right now. DS has been unsettled enough - DH is away for another few weeks, his baby sister had an operation before Christmas then I had a chest infection. It never rains.

lalalalyra

I am fairly sure by what you have written, that the school will stop asking your sons questions about this, but that won't solve the issue of the parents.

You are handling it brilliantly, OP. The other parents should be ashamed.

Hope it goes OK today OP, you sound like an amazing parent!!

The sweaky cog gets the oil, so they say. Time for you to be the sweaky cog.

Writing to the Governers is a good idea but I can see why it is tricky when you know everyone. I think that the best way to approach it is by playing with a straight bat - follow the procedures, put everything in writing and stay above board, just as you would if you didn't know the people involved. Definitely mention the potential conflict of interest that the chairman has though.

Keeping your son off school is another option available to you, if you think that the school cannot provide a safe environment for him to learn and is not protecting him from bullying (by pupils, staff or parents) then. It depends on how things go with the Head and the Governers. Not something to threaten lightly though.

Hope it goes well today. I think you've got a good approach and are handling things well. Hope you son doesn't need to use his phrase but he knows you've got his back.

I hope the meeting is successful OP.

Not unreasonable at all! no need for them to keep asking him questions when he's already given his account, and definitely not acceptable for other parents to approach him!

Gut feelings are worth listening to OP, if you already had one before this I'd definitely be looking at other schools. However, I'd be really careful that your son would want to move and also that he doesn't think you're moving him because he has somehow failed or done wrong in this. Know you've repeatedly told him he hasn't but he may still feel suddenly moving school away from friends etc is somehow his fault.
Hope your meeting goes well and it doesn't come to that. But I do trust gut feelings.

I would be livid. I suspect what's happened is:

School asks boys what happened, both give different accounts.
School asks if anyone saw it.
One boy says your son, the other agrees.
School ask your son.
School are really stupid and keep asking.
Both boys maintain he saw because saying this is making the school focus on your DS and not on them.
One parent sick of their kid being bullied/called a bully decides to ask your DS directly. Maybe hoping to approach him nicely to see if he's too scared to speak up because he doesn't want to be bullied/upset his best friend.
Other parent sees the approach and thinks they are going to "accost the witness"
Both parents loose their shit.

The fault here is the school firstly for letting it get this far and for putting so much focus on your son. The parents are also at fault for loosing their shit and upsetting a child.

Imo the harassment of your son by the teachers and now the parents is actually FAR more serious than the blowing raspberry/spitting incident.

When you go in be calm and reasonable and ask how on earth they let this get so out of hand. Be polite but firm and make sure they understand the upset caused to your son, the safeguarding issues re him being approached and how much they fucked up.

How did it go today OP?

DS is home with me. I'm even angrier than I was yesterday.

Waiting on a visit from the community police. Emails have been sent to the HT, the governors, LADO and the LEA with written copies getting sent tomorrow when I can get to the post office.

I'm absolutely furious and if another school has space, and I don't think over half-term I've been OTT and knee-jerky, then DS won't be going back to that school.

It's going to make life awkward and difficult because no other school is within walking distance, I'm the chair of the PTA and the chair of the voluntary group that runs the breakfast and afterschool club in the school (also we run our holiday playschemes in the school building), but I don't care.

She is the most incompetant HT I've ever come across - and I worked in schools for 10 years so have met a lot! Her lack of safeguarding knowledge as astounded me.

He was crying on a chair outside the school office for over an hour. A fucking hour! when I was 5 minutes away.

I am so sorry to hear that the meeting didn't go well. When you get chance to catch your breath, give yourself a pat on the back (and maybe a glass of alcohol) for being a good, caring parent. I hope that whatever happens, things work out for the best for you and your son

What on earth happened today?

It's funny I said on another thread that I could not believe that schools gave a toss about whether someone was on the PTA. It does appear that they care about whether they are a governor, or at least chair of governors. Maybe there should be a policy that parents of a child at a school can't be chair of governors for that school (even if they are not a parent governor - I was a LA governor but was also a parent for a year when my son joined the school at the end of my second term).

It's not about the father being a governor. It's not that she's giving special treatment or anything. She's just infuriating.

Doesn't see anything wrong in how they've hassled DS as they need to get to the bottom of what happened.

Doesn't see the problem in them not tell me he was upset because they know I'm "very busy" - funnily enough I'm not too fucking busy to be called if they want something PTA/breakfast club related.

Doesn't seem to understand why he was so upset.

Thinks that having a word and telling the parents to calm down a little is fine - thinks I'm over-reacting about the approach issue.

She doesn't really seem to grasp why I'm angry when I'm not the parent of either boy "involved" in the library incident. I don't get it - she can't be that obtuse.

There was a rumour when she got the job that she was lined up for a job at the education dept, but she couldn't do it without being a HT. She's been a PT and DHT for many years. I rubbished it because it sounded like rumoured gibberish, but she's not a HT. She's really not. She can't see at all that the situation has moved on from the library incident at all.

is there any member of staff who has been there a while and you respect OP?
you could perhaps contact him/her. I wonder if staff are being defensive as the supervision in the library was not up to scratch?

It seems to have escalated from a relatively small spate of foolish behaviour into something massive.
I guess the other 2 boys feel backed into a corner and will continue to lie which is horrible. The whole thing could have been swiftly and effectively dealt with.