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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell school & parents not to speak to DS again?

221 replies

lalalalyra · 09/02/2017 14:01

Last week there was an incident in the library when some of DS's class were in there. DS was at a table with 2 other boys, they are all 8.

DS says he was getting a book from the shelf when he heard one boy cry and another make a 'raspberry' noise.

One boy is saying he blew a raspberry at the other boy. The other boy is saying the boy spat in his face, then blew the raspberry to cover it. However both bits are adamant that DS was looking and should be backing up their story. DS is absolutely adamant that he had his back to them as he was getting a book out.

Fwiw I believe DS because he absolutely does not get on with the boy who is being accused of spitting and the other boy is his best friend so I think if he could back up his friend then he would.

My issue is that he's been spoken too by the head twice, the deputy head three times and his class teacher a couple of times as well. I've had both mothers at my door demanding to speak to him and this morning I got a phone call from the school that he'd arrived very upset because one of the parents (I've no idea which one yet) tried to speak to him at the gate and he asked school to call me and ask me to collect him at the end of the day - this is a boy who is massively proud off his walking to and from school, it takes 4 minutes and last week when I was in for a pta thing wanted me to walk the long way round so he could still walk himself home with the little group.

Apparently the head is planning to speak to all three boys again tomorrow and the secretary said she would imagine, knowing the head, it would be made very plain to the other parent that approaching DS wasn't on.

Aibu to tell them today that I don't want anyone - school or parent - speaking to my DS again about this? He didn't see it. He hasn't changed his story since the first time he was asked. He has no reason to lie and I'm not wanting him pulled out of class again for anymore chats?

I'm livid that someone thought it acceptable to speak to him. I'm angry with myself for not thinking of it, but it was last week and he's been fine everyday, just a bit annoyed that he keeps having to repeat it. I know it's a potentially very serious incident but if he didn't see it he didn't see it.

OP posts:
AwaywiththePixies27 · 09/02/2017 18:22

Even the teachers don't see some incidents that occur in class as they are busy. Why on earth are they convinced DS saw something? Would they be interrogating a teacher like this if said parents were convinced Mrs Smith had seen it all?

They sound like a fucking nightmare to be honest parents who deliberately go out the way to make things difficult for others.

Willow2016 · 09/02/2017 18:23

Put it in writing I agree and tell them to keep your son out of it from now on. Unless he has eyes on the back of his head why are they continually questioning him? All the other people there have not been grilled it's madness.

They should grow some authority and tell the parents it's been dealt with end of. Nobody can corroborate the story they should talk to the boys and end it. And definitely involve police about harassment by parents that is awful.

BurningBridges · 09/02/2017 18:24

OP do you know that the school has the power to exclude the parents from the school grounds? Including the gate area? Obvs they can't enforce that in the streets but exclusion from the playground/gate area usually hammers home the point that a parents' behaviour is outrageous.

SittingWithMyFeetUP12 · 09/02/2017 18:26

Letter to head, letter to governors, an local LEA if applicable. I would be furious too.

SittingWithMyFeetUP12 · 09/02/2017 18:27

And...

NotYoda · 09/02/2017 18:28

Burning

Yes, that has happened at our school.

HardcoreLadyType · 09/02/2017 18:29

Presumably full-on spitting is quite noisy? Did you ds HEAR anything?

I'm guessing the HT's interrogations are along these lines. If he's already told what he knows, why would the OP ask him more questions?

This issue for the OP is not what happened in the library; it's what's been going on since.

ollieplimsoles · 09/02/2017 18:30

I've had both mothers at my door demanding to speak to him and this morning

"Sorry but could you get the fuck off my property and stop trying to drag my son into your fucked up drama over nothing." -slam-

FrancisCrawford · 09/02/2017 18:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NotYoda · 09/02/2017 18:32

What did you say to the at the door, OP?

AwaywiththePixies27 · 09/02/2017 18:34

I've had both mothers at my door demanding to speak to him and this morning

Sod the school now OP. Get the police involved. Presuming you told them to fuck off leave your DS alone the first time. Turning up again this morning when they've been told to clear off is harassment. They'll visit the school too.

I've known parents get police cautions for less.

TheTantrumCometh · 09/02/2017 18:34

Fucking, some people really will stop at nothing to defend their little angels won't they? How can any parent think it's acceptable to approach a child in that way.

I suppose now we know why your DS has been questioned so much-both sets of parents have probably been on to the school and they're trying to shift the focus away from themselves by involving your DS so heavily.

RaspberryOverloadTheFirst · 09/02/2017 18:39

EweAreHere Thu 09-Feb-17 17:33:50

I cannot emphasize enough that you need to put your complaint in writing to the school. Have a letter in your hand. Make them respond in writing. CC the governors. You want a formal record of this.

I totally agree with this, and make sure there's a copy for the Chair of Governors.

OhBigHairyBollocks · 09/02/2017 18:40

I'm sorry OP, I wasn't minimizing the act.. I just think there has been a huge overreaction by the parents... Your son should only have been spoken to once.

I'm with those that are calling for a formal complaint. Disgusting behaviour, interrogating an 8 year old on the way to school Sad

I would go for mysterious email. Particularly the part about safeguarding.

JustSpeakSense · 09/02/2017 18:42

Letter to the head, and letter to the governors.

The school are getting this very wrong your poor DS.

SuperFlyHigh · 09/02/2017 18:43

I'd get the police involved re the parents but also do as I think Gilly says and email/letter to school and governors.

And also agree with the other poster re "spitting" can be misinterpreted and can sometimes be due to overexcitement. But I'm guessing this wasn't the case in this scenario.

If it's bullying between these 2 boys (eg one on the other) why hasn't this been dealt beforehand I'd also want to know?!

I'd be beyond furious and I know this goes against the grain but I'd be tempted to keep your DS off tomorrow or walk him to school etc. the lack duty of care to your son is truly shocking here.

photodrama · 09/02/2017 18:55

Yanbu. Complain to the governors.
As someone who has worked in schools this is ridiculous. It should have been dealt with on the day. Kids lie but you find out the best you can and you deal with it.

In our school we would have had a pretty damn good idea if the boy HAD spit based on other behaviour and there would have been missed break time or such. If it was out of character or we weren't sure there would have been a lecture about being kind to each other , apologies and monitor for further.

Their appalling handling and dragging out of this has resulted in your boy being harassed. I would be making a formal complaint.

Original poster
lalalalyra · 09/02/2017 19:02

What did you say to the at the door, OP?

I told them both, quite firmly I think, that it was a school matter, they wouldn't be speaking to him and he had told the school everything he heard or saw. That was last week so it didn't occur to me that they'd approach him themselves.

Don't get me wrong - if someone had deliberately spat in DS's face I'd be livid, but if no-one has seen it then no-one has seen it. If there was an issue with these two then, imo, they shouldn't have been on a table together or out of sight of the two staff (and I've worked in schools so I know how busy the staff are - I'm not unrealistic).

I can't go to the Chair of Governors. I need to find out what happens when the Chair has a serious conflict of interest with an issue. I assume the letter would be handled by the Vice-Chair? I don't know. I shall find out because there's no way whatsoever he can be involved in this.

OP posts:
Cel982 · 09/02/2017 19:05

Cel982
Good Lord, why on earth has the school allowed a minor "he said/he said" incident to drag on for a WEEK?!

Did you read the bit about the parents?

I did, yes, BoneyBack. Did you read this bit in the OP? Apparently the head is planning to speak to all three boys again tomorrow

There are two issues here, obviously - the behaviour of the parents, which has been condemned unanimously by every poster here. But the other issue - which I appreciate is not what the OP is posting about directly - is that the school have allowed what sounds like a fairly run-of-the-mill incident to escalate into some sort of Spanish Inquisition. It suggests a total lack of ability to implement appropriate disciplinary measures on the part of the school, and would seem to be inflaming the parents' behaviour.

murmuration · 09/02/2017 19:12

Is the Chair one of the parents?

Original poster
lalalalyra · 09/02/2017 19:15

murmur He's the father of one of the boys.

OP posts:
AlmostAJillSandwich · 09/02/2017 19:15

Personally i'd direct some of the anger you're feeling at the 2 boys involved here.
Both are adamantly claiming your son saw the incident, when he clearly didn't. It's unlikely they actually are mistakenly certain he saw, more likely one tried to use your DS as his witness (either "spitter" to "prove" innocence or "spat at" to "prove" hes not lying and being bullied), and the other retaliated.
"But he DID spit in my face then tried to cover it up, lalalyra's Ds SAW him do it!" "lalalyras DS saw that i ONLY blew a raspberry and never spat anywhere near him on purpose!"
Personally i'm inclined to think your sons friend may be the one who thought, since DS is his best friend, he could say your DS saw and he'd back him up, and in a panic other boy has claimed Ds saw too and can back him up. Your poor lovely Ds however is honest and just telling the truth he didn't see so cannot help solve the issue.
Also since neither boy is backing down and admitting they lied, it's going round and round in circles, but the fact is, one of them IS lying. The school are under massive pressure from both sets of parents to find out the truth, and since both parties continue to stick to their stories of what happened and insist your Ds saw, they continue trying to get him to tell them "the truth" because they think he's the only one can, and probably think he's trying to protect himself from getting on anyone's bad side by dobbing one of them in.

If friend is being bullied his parents will understandably want the bully punishing, and if it's a second incident they want it punishing well enough other child realises it's not ok to bully and leave their son alone.
If however the boy really didn't spit in his face, him and his parents don't want him punishing for something he didn't do and be branded a bully, mud sticks.

But the sheer fact is, EVERYONE needs to leave your son alone. He's told them he didn't see what happened, he honestly cannot help, The parents, instead of coming to have ago at your son or the other involved child, need to have frank discussions with their own children and accept there IS a possibility their child lied. A calm "we won't be mad, but this needs sorting, so please, tell us - if you think you might have been mistaken about him spitting at you intentionally/if you did spit at him but were just playing and didn't mean to upset him".

Whichever kid has lied is probably way too scared to say so because of the complete shit storm it has turned in to. If everyone backed off a bit with the pressure, dialed down the anger, and gave some reassurance that whats happened can be fixed, even if they've not been completely truthful, it stands a far better chance of getting solved ajust badgering OP's son. He should be commended for telling the truth, not put in a position where he feels he's going to have to end up just picking a side to make it stop, and then be "in trouble" for not "telling the truth" sooner or become a target of whoever he backed up if they were the liar.
For everyone saying "it's not a big deal just move on and let it go" remember, spitting is legally considered assault, if an adult did it they could be arrested, possibly even charged with an offense. Because it is a bodily fluid, it can contain infectious diseases like hepatitis, it's unlikely a school boy has anything to worry about in his saliva but it is potentially a VERY serious thing with serious implications to spit on someone, especially the face with so many ways it can get into the system.

BoneyBackJefferson · 09/02/2017 19:16

Cel982

I doubt that the school has "allowed" this to escalate at all. It is the parents that are pushing this and the school that is responding.

It suggests to me that the school is stuck between two equally bolshie parents that are not willing to let the situation calm down or let the school "implement appropriate disciplinary measures".

What the school has done wrong is not tell the parents to 'back the fuck off' (the school can use the appropriate pretty language). But I suspect that even this wouldn't calm the situation.

Gazelda · 09/02/2017 19:44

Is there one of the governors who's particular remit is safeguarding? I know that at my DD's school each of the Governors is responsible for various areas of the school life, e.g. Pastoral, literacy, IT, etc.

I'd be formalising this, in writing, to the very highest level. Your DS has been treated abominably. I presume that the raspberry spitter hasn't yet been punished as no-one knows his crime, 2 parents have been allowed to harass and upset an innocent boy and the chair of governors should be ashamed that this has happened on 'his watch'.

Cel982 · 09/02/2017 19:47

What the school has done wrong is not tell the parents to 'back the fuck off' (the school can use the appropriate pretty language).

Oh, agreed. But the fact that the school is also continuing to involve the OP's son in their interrogations is completely wrong. And suggests they are bowing to pressure from the other parents, which any decent school should be able to handle more appropriately.