To ask how this is all going to end

[thedcbrokemybank]

I see Brexit and Trump as symptomatic of a rise in right wing views (FWIW I do believe there is a legitimate argument for Brexit just that it has been overshadowed by other issues). In some respects I can even see where they are coming from (protectionist stand point) but what I don't understand is how any good can come of what is happening now. I don't believe Trump has the capacity to MAGA because the world he wants back does not exist anymore. I think his actions have a huge global impact and he is totally destabilising peace within western civilisations.

Genuinely what do people believe is going to happen now and how is this all going to end?

I haven't read the whole thread - living next to US means being innundated with pro- and anti-Trump news and commentary.

Upthread, a couple of people were aksing about the creeping anti-Jewish laws in Germany in the 30's

1933
January 30: President Hindenburg appoints Adolf Hitler as Reich Chancellor (Prime Minister) of Germany.

March 23: First concentration camp at Dachau is set up for political opponents of the Nazis.

April 1: Nazis proclaim a general boycott of all Jewish-owned businesses in a state-sponsored campaign to deprive Jews of their livelihood.

April 7: Jews dismissed from civil service and denied admission to the bar

April 26: Nazis form Gestapo to terrorize opponents of the State.

May 2: Dissolution of free trade unions

May 10: Books written by Jews and other enemies of Nazism are burned in a state-sponsored attempt to keep German minds "untainted."

July 14: A law is passed permitting the forced sterilization of Gypsies, the mentally and physically disabled, African Germans, and others the Nazis considered "inferior."

December 1: Hitler declares legal unity of the German State and Nazi Party

1934
August 2: German President Hindenburg dies. Hitler becomes Head of State and Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces.

October: First mass arrests of German homosexuals begin.

1935
April: Jehovah's Witnesses are banned from all civic service jobs and are arrested throughout Germany.

August 1: Juden Verboten ("NO JEWS") signs appear everywhere forbidding Jews from public facilities, stores and restaurants.

September 15: Reichstag (parliament) passes anti-Semitic "Nuremberg Laws."

1936
July 12: First mass arrests of German Gypsies take place throughout Germany.

August 1-16: Olympic Games held in Berlin. Anti-Jewish signs are removed until the end of the games.

October 25: Rome-Berlin Axis is signed by Mussolini and Hitler.

November 25: Germany and Japan sign military pact

1937
July 16: Buchenwald concentration camp opens

1938
March 13: Germany annexes Austria. Nazis apply anti-Semitic laws

July 6-15: Evian Conference to discuss refugee policies. Most of the countries of Western Europe and the U.S. refuse to let in more Jewish refugees.

September 29: Munich Agreement: Britain and France appease Hitler by allowing Germany to annex part of Czechoslovakia.

October 5: Passports of Jews are marked with the letter "J"

November 9: Kristallnacht (Night of Broken Glass). Anti-Semitic riots erupt in Germany and Austria. Synagogues are burned, shops are damaged and looted. Many Jews are arrested and sent to concentration camps.

November 12: 26,000 Jews are arrested and sent to concentration camps

November 15: All Jewish children are expelled from German public schools.

December 13: Decree on "Aryanization" (compulsory expropriation of Jewish industries, businesses and shops) is enacted

1939
March 15: German troops invade all of Czechoslovakia.

July 26: Adolf Eichmann is placed in charge of Prague branch of the emigration office

August 23: Soviet-German Non-Aggression Pact is signed by Hitler and Stalin.

September 1: German Army invades Poland. World War II begins.

September 3: Britain and France declare war on Germany

September 17: Soviet occupation of Eastern Poland

October: Euthanasia program is instituted within Germany and Austria. Mentally and physically disabled persons are gassed.

October 12: First deportation of Jews from Austria and Moravia to Poland

November 23: Wearing of Judenstern (Jewish six-pointed Star of David) is made compulsory throughout occupied Poland

tnolddad I don't have much hope that common sense will prevail when the officials are deciding on a case by case basis who can be let in or not. I've seen videos where lawyers had federal court rulings to release someone that was being detained for questioning and the officials blanket refused citing they were following executive orders. The law system is being tested and it seems it will not always withstand, so if there is no law system to question wrong-doings and we don't know what the criteria is in the first place, this ban is very very much open to abuse. This is what worries me most. How would we know that an official didn't think someone looked like a terrorist because they had a beard so was refused entry? This sounds ridiculous, but it's just as ridiculous as there being no process to deal with abuse.

The attacks ISIS commit resonate through us all, 'terror' is exactly what it is, I was scared to go to Paris over Christmas (I'm in the UK) because there might be a terrorist attack. It is disgusting to think that these terrorists have instilled fear in us all. But that doesn't mean that blaming the vast majority of innocent citizens in a country is justifiable. To quote my previous article:

"Iranians within the U.S. are rarely associated with acts of terror. One case emphasizes how exceptional terrorism is among the community here: a single Iranian-American citizen was sentenced to 25 years for plotting in 2011 to assassinate the Saudi Arabian ambassador to Washington. Another 2 dozen or so Iranians have been convicted for violating sanctions imposed by the U.S. against Iran. Indeed refugees and other immigrants and visitors are only a miniscule risk to public safety as demonstrated by data collected by the Cato Institute - www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/terrorism-immigration-risk-analysis#full

The way that this ban was implemented and the thoughts behind it were misguided at best, and heartless at worst.

There are intelligence agencies for a reason, the US has a vast number of 'experts', I know Trump doesn't like the word but really they there has to be a process and consultation or there is no democracy.

. I've seen videos where lawyers had federal court rulings to release someone that was being detained for questioning and the officials blanket refused citing they were following executive orders.

Please share these videos. I would like to see

How would we know that an official didn't think someone looked like a terrorist because they had a beard so was refused entry?

Funny story but that exact thing happened to a good friend of mine trying to enter the UK, luckily his future MIL vouched for him. I have no doubt that stereotyping people happens, but at times it is for a valid reason. When one is innocent they can laugh about it, when one is not then maybe not.

The exact same argument is used by the right here with regards to gun-control. Not allowing automatic weapons "may" lead to registering guns which "may" lead to taking away of the guns.

Laws should be followed and carried out by our president whoever that is, on either side. As I stated earlier, laws are not being followed on either side, they are just giving "directives" to get the affect they want on the public. It goes both ways and has been that way in the US for as long as I have followed politics.

Please share link proving this that does not include innuendo.

I have no link. The article was written by a forensic psychiatrist, a Canadian university faculty member and published some months ago in a professional journal I sometimes read online. I checked his qualifications, he checked out. I have access to my university's library through my alumna account. He wasn't pretending to offer any diagnosis either, which would have been unprofessional, just using Trump as an exemplar of a widely recognised behaviour.

There's no innuendo in what I wrote. Look up innuendo in a dictionary. That he contradicts himself in the way I described can be confirmed from your own observation and research, you don't have to rely on the complaisant media.

Looking for yourself is the best way to find out anything.

I understand Trump's appeal, I sometimes agree with what he says. I just don't agree with his way of tackling what he sees as the problem.

tnolddad

As a Trump apologist who clearly agrees on the travel ban how do you feel about the fact that it doesnt extend to saudi arabia, turkey and egypt which produces more than its fair share of terrorists? Is his business interest worth more than your national security?

"[Trump] is doing exactly what he said he would as he campaign"

No, he's not. To be exact, he had a very long list of things he would do "On Day 1." 2 weeks in, he hasn't done them and many he never will do.

Among the highlights of undelivered promises he said he would
Never take a vacation while serving as president
Target and kill the relatives of terrorists
Persecute Hillary Clinton
Lower prices for prescription medicines
Ban ALL Muslims
Repeal Gay Marriage
Make relations worse with Cuba
Cut taxes
End birthright citizenship

I don't want Trump to implement those, But he did promise them, he promised unicorns & fairy rainbows too, I reckon.

Lord Dampnut's fans will find a way to blame the liberals for all the things Trump didn't even try to do.

Yep i am waiting for the 'jail Hilary' bit

Not because i want her jailed at all

But only because he is completely unable to do it

tnolddad

Watch from 3 minutes 30s for the footage I refer to

Funny story but that exact thing happened to a good friend of mine trying to enter the UK, luckily his future MIL vouched for him.

I'm sorry but I don't find this funny - comparing the fact that an isolated case happened in the UK with what is now basically a waiver to anyone who wants to discriminate based on colour or appearance.

I have no doubt that stereotyping people happens, but at times it is for a valid reason.

This is normalising discrimination based on colour and physical appearance. Do you have any idea how that sounds to the majority of the British people? It echoes the language of those in the era when photos circulated of the physical characteristics of Jews in the World Wars so that people could identify them. People often say the left are being sensationalist but it's comments like this which normalise such racism that lead to these comparisons.

When one is innocent they can laugh about it, when one is not then maybe not.

What happened to innocent till proven guilty? Do we find everyone guilty now if they are from one of the 7 countries? It is a very tiny minority of people who are extremists and like I said before most people coming to the US or living in the US are trying to run away from extremism! This ban is not even targeting the people it wishes to reach.

The exact same argument is used by the right here with regards to gun-control. Not allowing automatic weapons "may" lead to registering guns which "may" lead to taking away of the guns.

To be quite frank this is your problem in the US, a fear of everyone to the degree that you have to carry guns, most people in the UK look at this with absolute horror as do many Western nations.

Just Turkey is a NATO nation and thus an ally of the US. Whilst I think there is a debate to be had about Turkey's continuing membership of NATO, given the supposed 'coup', and Erdogan's treatment of those military officers serving outside Turkey with NATO, and his general crackdown on freedom of speech, for the moment, it would be difficult to ban people from a country with whom you are in alliance.

it would be difficult to ban people from a country with whom you are in alliance

But give him another month....

Narky It might just make Erdogan think!!!!

FlyMeToTheMoonLiterally
Thank you for your posts, they are very informative and thought provoking. The video you provided was an eye opener. I was more than a little surprised that a police officer was denying 3 members of congress entry to a hold area. You are correct that giving any government official the right to deny someone rightful access is a terrible idea and I admit after further review that this ban does that. It reminded me of a similar right-wing video about people put on the no-fly list without any vetting, and then having to prove they should be taken off. Taking away rights, or even questioning beyond what is normal protocol, without probable cause is against the law.

To be quite frank this is your problem in the US, a fear of everyone to the degree that you have to carry guns
I would disagree with the premise that we all walk around with firearms. Americans do own a lot of guns and I will not argue that, but very few actually carry them around as the vast majority of guns are kept in the home. If they are taken out mostly it is for going to a firing range or hunting. I have only witnessed three people (excluding law enforcement personnel) with a gun outside of those areas in the almost 60 years of my life. Personally, I hunted up until my early 30s and have not owned a gun since, I have never even held a handgun much less fired one.

As a Trump apologist who clearly agrees on the travel ban how do you feel about the fact that it doesnt extend to saudi arabia, turkey and egypt which produces more than its fair share of terrorists? Is his business interest worth more than your national security?
Depending on which report you want to read the countries were chosen based on a government intelligence list or on the president’s business interest so we are left to make assumptions and best guesses so here is mine. As stated already, Turkey is in NATO. Egypt is designated as an US Major non-NATO ally en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally . Last but not least Saudi Arabia has lots of oil…. and really it is somewhat difficult to defend that choice, but not surprising as the USA and Saudi Arabia relations have remained reasonably close even despite the number of 9/11 attackers that were Saudi. I will agree that even the appearance that the president’s business interest is bad, and those appearances are going to be noted the entire time he is president.

Looking for yourself is the best way to find out anything. I understand Trump's appeal, I sometimes agree with what he says. I just don't agree with his way of tackling what he sees as the problem.
Agreed. As I stated in an earlier post “I know I am coming across as a Trump fan, but actually I am not. He was a very poor choice to lead the right and it is shameful that someone of his ilk leads our great nation.”
To answer the OP’s actual question, I really don’t think that much is going to change one way or the other here in the US because of our bureaucracy. Our government will continue to grow, our politicians will continue to promise, and our nation will continue to be deeply divided. Four year’s from now we will go thru the same cycle again and one side or the other will be unhappy.