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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask how this is all going to end

212 replies

thedcbrokemybank · 31/01/2017 11:04

I see Brexit and Trump as symptomatic of a rise in right wing views (FWIW I do believe there is a legitimate argument for Brexit just that it has been overshadowed by other issues). In some respects I can even see where they are coming from (protectionist stand point) but what I don't understand is how any good can come of what is happening now. I don't believe Trump has the capacity to MAGA because the world he wants back does not exist anymore. I think his actions have a huge global impact and he is totally destabilising peace within western civilisations.

Genuinely what do people believe is going to happen now and how is this all going to end?

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 31/01/2017 13:58

I think marchers are far more likely to vote than any other group.

OCSockOrphanage · 31/01/2017 14:00

Obama was/is an accomplished orator and a man of grace, charm, and integrity, but I am not certain that history will judge him to be a distinguished president. He is however revered by most of those who regard themselves as fair and liberal-minded. Most of these folk believe fervently that they are wholeheartedly on the side of right.

It has entirely escaped their notice that there are even more people who feel swept aside by the social revolution that has taken place (on both sides of the Atlantic, and in much of Europe) without them being actively consulted. The political and managerial "intelligentsia" have hijacked decision-making and claimed to be doing so in what they deemed the best interests of all strata of society. What we are seeing from recent politics is the backlash. It will be played out again in 2017 in the elections in the Netherlands, France and Germany.

Trump, Farage, Le Pen, AfD and Geert Wilders et al speak for vast numbers who feel their needs have been systematically ignored in favour of the metropolitan classes with degrees, professional jobs and liberal/correct politics. Their glossy simplistic statements focus on what hits the left-behind close to home: zero hours contracts; NMW work, part-time jobs; housing, health, education and transport policies that make life harder, not easier.

Right wing politicians are seen as apologists for global businesses and bankers' cronies; more left-leaning politicians are so busy being right on they have nothing substantive to say on everyday real life issues.

The demagogues have stepped into the gap.

user1484653592 · 31/01/2017 14:07

"I think the rise of the right wing is a response to growing inequality, people feeling they are being left behind in a globalised world and wanting to shut the doors on it. The question is: what is causing growing inequality?"

Neo-liberal capitalism and globalisation. A focus on growth without quality of life, fairness, caring for our environment and for the vulnerable, a meaningful and healthy existence. It has been money, money money coupled with a huge emphasis on consumerism for most of the 20th and 21st century.

I'd like to say that it wasn't the poor that drove the Brexit and Trump campaigns, they largely stayed out of it, it was mainly disenchanted white middle classes. The digital medium has hugely transformed people's lives and lifestyles. That's unsettling. immigration is also unsettling for those who have stayed put as they observe their changing social landscape without participating in freedom of movement. I'd also say that we have become rather decadent in the West. Decadent, spoilt and bored. Part of me believes Trump was voted in part because people are bored.

Motherofhowmany · 31/01/2017 14:08

Trump will most likely be impeached. He's firing people who dare to disagree with him and is breaking constitutional lae.This isn't about policy this is about how manageable he is. He's already acting as Nixon did in his final days of office.

thedcbrokemybank · 31/01/2017 14:08

Trump, Farage, Le Pen, AfD and Geert Wilders et al speak for vast numbers who feel their needs have been systematically ignored in favour of the metropolitan classes with degrees, professional jobs and liberal/correct politics. Their glossy simplistic statements focus on what hits the left-behind close to home: zero hours contracts; NMW work, part-time jobs; housing, health, education and transport policies that make life harder, not easier.

This is exactly the problem I think. There are a huge number of people who are disenfranchised with the current system and there is no one in the middle to represent them. They unfortunately turn to people like Farage and Trump who whilst making shiny promises do so with rascism and without regard for tolerance and empathy.

OP posts:
thedcbrokemybank · 31/01/2017 14:09

Oops that was meant to be in bold not with a line through it!

OP posts:
Motherofhowmany · 31/01/2017 14:11

For those saying he won't be impeached as he's just doing what he promised this arguments tells it better than I can in why he almost inevitably will be:

m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_588e8d52e4b0b065cbbcd09f

Riversleep · 31/01/2017 14:19

I agree it is the complete polarisation of opinion that is shocking to me. Both here and I'm the US. I voted remain. Some of my family and friends voted leave. None of them are racists or rabid right wingers but the debate on that side has been taken over by the arrogant, mainly white rich males who are selling the world 50 years ago to people. In the far left corner we have the no platformers who randomly brand people as racist, homophobic, transphobic and whatever else whenever their views are challenged or they are asked to explain. Most people I know are neither of those. But we have nowhere to go.

mummymeister · 31/01/2017 14:22

There are an awful lot of people with right wing views who are turning round to protestors and saying "so you feel disenfranchised and you think this is wrong? well this is how we have felt for years and you didn't give a shiny shit about us then did you"

Motherof - I am not a betting person but I would put a £1 on that he wont be impeached. if he is, then I will apologise to the MN community.

they daren't impeach him. the right wingers with guns will riot and then the shit really will hit the rotating blade.

the middle never represents anything. its the middle. what effects change is the polar opposite. I am sure some of the people who voted for Trump don't actually agree 100% or possibly even 50% with what he says. but they are so sick and tired of being told that they are wrong, racist, protectionist etc etc that they just want something/anything that's different.

I do continue to feel very uncomfortable about the comparisons with Hitler. were you saying this when Blair took us to war on a lie and caused much of the shit storm we are now dealing with?

by wheeling Hitler out as the threat of what might happen every time there is something like this what actually happens in the minds of most people is that they switch off I am afraid. he is a bogeyman. and in my view it diminishes the suffering of the Jews, homosexuals and every other minority group he persecuted to compare people today to him.

VoodooPeople · 31/01/2017 14:23

I seriously considering investing in bottled water, tinned food, gaffer tape & candles

Don't forget the tinfoil hat ...

I doubt we'll have 4 years of a Trump administration. He will get bored once he realises he can't play with the nuclear button and make up laws on a whim. Alternatively, someone will shoot the crazy shitgibbon.

user892 · 31/01/2017 14:26

Impeachment or KABOOM

DJBaggySmalls · 31/01/2017 14:28

'Trump is Obamas legacy.'
'MRA's are Feminists legacy.'
'the march for women will just make Trump ban abortions'

I see these arguments made on forums by people on the Right.

Specifically, what has Trump done that is so great?
What did Obama do that was so bad?
They can't answer that beyond 'he did what he said he would do'

mummymeister · 31/01/2017 14:36

DJBaggy - one of Obamas big promises before he came into office was that he would shut Guantanamo Bay. lets not forget people here being held for years and years and years without a trial of any sort. without visiting rights without anything because its "not on American soil"

I cheered when he said this. and did he do it. No.

This in my opinion was what he didn't do that was so bad. He knew it was wrong, he still knows it but when he had the chance to do what trump is doing now and pass an exec order he didn't.

Obama was in for 8 years. Trump hasn't even been in a month yet. I think we need to judge it later on and not get caught up in the hysteria of it all.

I am none to impressed with him so far but he was voted in as president of a democracy. would some left wingers like to see him overthrown in a coup because lets be fair those have gone really well in the world just lately - not!

Motherofhowmany · 31/01/2017 14:43

mummy with all due respect, we have every right to judge trump on his actions after one week considering he has demonstrated little awareness of the us courts and constitution.

Obama did a lot of things I openly disagreed with. But he didn't do anything which has made me worry for the worlds safety as much as trump has in the past week.

mummymeister · 31/01/2017 14:46

I worried for the worlds safety when Blair was in power with his WMD and launching in 30 mins. you have every right to judge him if you want to.

I think Trump is fully aware of the courts and the constitution. don't fall into the trap of thinking he and his advisors are stupid. they are not.

Dawndonnaagain · 31/01/2017 14:49

and in my view it diminishes the suffering of the Jews, homosexuals and every other minority group he persecuted to compare people today to him.
I rather think that we that it does not in any way diminish the suffering of the Jews, it reminds.
Jews rising against Trump's refugee ban

whatsthepointofmorgan · 31/01/2017 14:55

There wont be world war three. those of us old enough to remember Reagan remember loads of crap being written about him and how it would all end and it didn't

I remember that. There's always been trouble.
Same shit different packaging.
We survive, and we always do.
Not a year goes by without there being doomongering of some sort.

Remember some of the headlines in the the newspapers when New Labour got in?
Last One To Leave Britain Turn The Lights Out (on a black suitably funereal background to rival any sad face)
was one.

OCSockOrphanage · 31/01/2017 15:15

I thought that headline was earlier than New Labour's landslide? I thought that dated from the 1970s old gimmer.

whatsthepointofmorgan · 31/01/2017 15:20

There was one in 1992.
I think it's a phrase that gets rolled out regularly!

myfavouritecolourispurple · 31/01/2017 15:44

Without wanting to be a Trump apologist - this happened here too:

He FIRED the attourney general because her interpretation of the law didnt suit him. That job is to ensure the law is followed and he's just added a caveat that says 'unless the president decides otherwise

David Cameron fired Dominic Grieve because he didn't give him the asnwe rhe wanted about getting rid of the Human Rights Act. Not immediately, and he wasn't stupid enough to say so, but that was the nonetheless the reason.

As foe Trump - I'm with SmilingbutClueless. People who don't spout the party line have been shouted down for a long time. They worry about immigration so they must be racist. The whole transgender debate is another one. Some (well, clearly, quite a lot of) people are fed up with "liberals". The result is Trump who says what they are thinking and does what they think sounds right.

NarkyMcDinkyChops · 31/01/2017 15:48

The result is Trump who says what they are thinking and does what they think sounds right

And its frankly fucking terrifying that so many people can look at that twats face and think, yes, this is what we wanted.

KathArtic · 31/01/2017 16:03

Trump apologist

Nooooo! that term will now be used for ever more Sad

MakingMerry · 31/01/2017 16:18

What's wrong with Trump apologist being used for ever more?

TheNaze73 · 31/01/2017 16:28

I think your last post summed it up very well OP. People are forever banging on, that they want change, surely they need to take ownership for their own journey, rather than expecting a political figure to totally deliver it.
The U.K. Political arena is a mess at the moment. The LibDems have 8 Mp's, one on an airport ticket & are no longer relevant, Corbyn is very niche & appeals to less than 1 in 4 voters & UKIP scarily polled 4 million votes at the last general election & I think will win the Stoke by election, doubling their MP count.
I would love the very best Blairite labour mp's to break away with the moderate rational Conservatives & form a breakaway party.
Will never happen but, neither will Corbyn ever become PM

Dawndonnaagain · 31/01/2017 16:29

There wont be world war three. those of us old enough to remember Reagan remember loads of crap being written about him and how it would all end and it didn't
I think the difference is that Reagan was just a tad hard of thinking, whereas Trump is thick and a narcissistic psychopath.

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