To ask how this is all going to end

[thedcbrokemybank]

I see Brexit and Trump as symptomatic of a rise in right wing views (FWIW I do believe there is a legitimate argument for Brexit just that it has been overshadowed by other issues). In some respects I can even see where they are coming from (protectionist stand point) but what I don't understand is how any good can come of what is happening now. I don't believe Trump has the capacity to MAGA because the world he wants back does not exist anymore. I think his actions have a huge global impact and he is totally destabilising peace within western civilisations.

Genuinely what do people believe is going to happen now and how is this all going to end?

I am and continue to be astounded at the view some people take when something they don't agree with happens. Like a bunch of tantruming children.
Half of the people in the country voted for brexit, a large tranche of people voted for Trump.
Not all of these people are stupid, racist or any other insult you wish to hurl at them. They take a different view to others.
Obama and the left have had their say for some years, now the right will have theirs, those opposed to this will have to learn it suck it up. Just like those who opposed Left wings politics did.

Narky If Obama's policies and those of the 'sane' in the UK and Europe, are so bloody marvellous and every one is happy and prosperous - why Trump and Brexit?

I don't think Brexit is insane - I voted for it (and I live just outside Brussels, and have done for a decade, with full voting rights due to HMG employment, UK tax paying and returning to the UK in 2019 before you start squawking).

I think Putin is insane, as is Kim Jong Un, but Trump getting elected was a choice by lots of the US electorate, who could have voted for Hilary, or a n other candidate (this can be done as an American friend did it), or not voted at all, but they decided something is wrong in their society, and they see Trump as a way to fix it, as the current order is not working for them.

More of them did vote for Hilary. See, insane way to vote.

he wont be impeached. he is only doing what he said he would do. trouble is too many people vote for politicians on the basis that 99% of what they promise to do when they are in office wont happen. trump comes along. he promises something. he does it. and everyone is up in arms about how unexpected it is!

If only they had paid attention in history lessons. Well, or had any good ones, that is.

In Germany, everyone who paid attention knows that this is exactly what Hitler did. When he talked about his planned genocide, people thought it was just populism.
When he gave a book on his insane ideas to every newly married couple, people put it somewhere on a shelf and didn't read it.

And then he did exactly what he had said he would do. And some people claimed, even afterwards, to not have known what was going on.

I seriously considering investing in bottled water, tinned food, gaffer tape & candles.

Insanity for those who voted for Trump would have been voting for more of the same (Hilary) and nothing changing at all.

Just as there is a Brussels and Westminster bubble, there is a Washington DC bubble...Trump is nominally outside that. Let's face it, if the politicians were so good at what they do, we would have peace, love, harmony and unicorns. We don't. QED

Why is AIBU a dumping ground for everything?
There are millions of ways this could end. America might simply go splendid isolationist again.

I think the Labour Party have a good chance to step up here now but I don't think they will take it. I looked at Miliband in yesterday's emergency debate and wondered where that person was during the last election. Looking at different versions of the Ed Stone? Pity.

I think that the left-wing rebellion, in a decade or two, will abandon democracy entirely.

I think there is a huge difference between brexit & Trump. I voted remain & am still gutted that we're leaving BUT I remember feeling very confused in the run up about the right thing to do. I think the far right vote swung it & theyve hijacked the outcome so the 'will of the people' is now seen as largely anti-immigration but there were lots of other arguments for leaving. I think someone could have voted for Brexit without thinking they would be supporting racism.

On the other hand Trump was very open about some extremely racist policies, he was open about sexist policies and policies that would severely hurt the poorest people. Supporting Trump means accepting those things - at the very least turning a blind eye to others being hurt.

This isnt just another swing. He FIRED the attourney general because her interpretation of the law didnt suit him. That job is to ensure the law is followed and he's just added a caveat that says 'unless the president decides otherwise'

I think anything could happen (I will take the splinters out of my own arse thanks ).

My two biggest concerns are Trump is an egomaniac, I think it's such a politically delicate landscape at the moment that's hard for hardcore commentators to get a grip on never mind the rest of us, the potential for personal offence to turn into political disaster is huge.

Off the back of that, I mused today that we (as in the general population) are talking ourselves back 70 years economically. Brexit is going to happen and wide swathes of the population protesting against our biggest target for economic stability isn't the best idea imho. Like I said it's delicate, and I don't think we really understand the wider implications yet. Trump has no form as POTUS for us to judge by yet. Not really.

It's a big world out there and in the last twelve months the GBP have flipped the bird to pretty much everyone. I don't see a great outcome from that, I just hope it's a tremour rather than an earthquake.

"I seriously considering investing in bottled water, tinned food, gaffer tape & candles."

gaffer tape? Whatever for? Might stock up on tinned rice pudding.

To seal up the windows & doors for the nuclear winter of course.

What a see is a huge and worrying polarisation of views. I am 100 per cent against racism ( spent much of my career in this area) and Trump seems dangerous and unpleasant BUT I do think immigration has been handled badly.
It seems as if we are no longer permitted to express doubts, work our ways through things and listen to informed debate and read neutral information. We are being corralled into one way or the other.

I see! Will that help?

No idea, it made me feel better when I woke in cold sweat worrying about it the other night.

People have a right to their views in a democracy. Yes they do. They did in 1933 too.

Obama and the left have had their say for some years, now the right will have theirs, those opposed to this will have to learn it suck it up. Just like those who opposed Left wings politics did. No they don't. The fact is that what Trump is doing is illegal. Ergo we have a moral responsibility to object to the illegalities that prevent free and fair movement. Ripping families apart and banning from countries in which the majority follow a particular religion, unless you have business interests there is not a right wing policy, it's a feather my own nest, I'm a dictator now, policy.

Let's face it, if the politicians were so good at what they do, we would have peace, love, harmony and unicorns. We don't.

How old are you?

Ignoring illegalities, we should all be objecting to this

When Trump was running for the Republican nomination I remember saying he reminded me of Greg Stillson from Stephen King's novel The Dead Zone. He still does. I genuinely fear for our future. I genuinely think the risk of major international conflict is higher than it has been for a long, long time. I think too many people are too ready to dismiss concerns about where Trump is taking the US, because as people have pointed out, there are many very frightening parallels with how Hitler started out.

I think that the UK is in a totally rubbish position at the moment. Brexit leaves us with little choice but to cosy up to the US and try and keep them on our side. Which, these days, means appeasing a monster.

We do seem to be losing centre ground, the left seem to be taking the stand that you are either with us or a piece of shit and the right are taking advantage.

Theresa May's visit to the US reminded me of 'peace in our time'. Unfortunately there only seems to be one way this can go. Unless Trump is impeached early on...

I am and continue to be astounded at the view some people take when something they don't agree with happens. Like a bunch of tantruming children.
Half of the people in the country voted for brexit, a large tranche of people voted for Trump.
Not all of these people are stupid, racist or any other insult you wish to hurl at them. They take a different view to others.
Obama and the left have had their say for some years, now the right will have theirs, those opposed to this will have to learn it suck it up. Just like those who opposed Left wings politics did.

MadBengalMum - at last some sensible comments. I agree entirely.

YY to the parallels with 1930s politics. And other times in history.

Increasing inequality and hardship for those towards the bottom is a recipe for the rise of extremism, over and over again.

That extremism takes a variety of forms - extreme right, extreme left, racism, fundamentalist religion, protectionism, "Lebensraum"/invasion, etc. None are very palatable but they happen because people are sick of "the system" and "the establishment" and think there must be a better way. They have got so desperate that they will listen to someone who promises the earth even if in less desperate times they would see the holes in those promises.

In an ideal world "the system" and "the establishment" would recognise the problem and undertake some changes to make things more equal and the extremists would lose most of their support.

Unfortunately what history shows is usually the extremists get power for a bit, fuck everything up, and only after that do the extremists lose their support.

Eeeek.

I think the rise of the right wing is a response to growing inequality, people feeling they are being left behind in a globalised world and wanting to shut the doors on it. The question is: what is causing growing inequality?

Where the US goes from this, I don't know. For the first time in my life I see the prospect of a split union. The heavily armed nature of the US population, 1.1 guns for every person has to make violencw a real concern..

Where the UK goes, I see the ongoing dismantling of the welfare state, and a drop in living standards. There's a big risk that in shutting ourselves off from the world, we both lose research funding (and EU funding is a big part of UK funding) but more importantly we cause a brain drain as researchers choose to go elsewhere in Europe with better funding opportunities and no visa requirements.

Unfortunately, with an impoverished knowledge economy, having lost our manufacturering base, with the risk that the London financial role moving to Frankfurt, and a decreased number of public sector jobs, I think we are in for a sustained period of high unemployment and all that that entails.

mummymeister
we have local elections coming up soon and yet again there will be a poor turn out of in most places under 50%. I wonder how many of those going on marches aren't either registered to vote or cant be arsed?
they then bleet about how these things they don't like happen but don't actually take the basic steps to stop it ie. voting.

You are making a huge assumption that marchers don't vote. Why would you do that? I would imagine marchers would be more politically-engaged than a lot of other people and would almost certainly vote.

On a parochial level, I would imagine the Mumsnet Preppers board will get a lot more traffic.