To think the trump Muslim ban is wrong BUT

[HannahSmithson45]

Many of the same countries ban entry for people from Israel or who have ever been to Israel.

The principal of collective punishment for nationality is wrong whether that is a Syrian or an Israeli or an American.

Many of which countries?

This is whataboutery.

The ban is poor, with racist motives, has been successfully challenged in court and was implemented overnight with absolutely thought to how it could be responsibly managed.

I didn't know any countries banned Israelis nevermind anyone who has ever been to Israel how bizzare. Which ones?

So if other countries are racist it makes it ok for America to be as well?

Shit policies in other countries don't make it ok for America to have shit policies.

Low Comotion: all the Arab countries with the exception of Jordan and Egypt.

When I lived in Singapore I had friends who were from Israel; they were not allowed into the neighbouring majority muslim countries of Malaysia and Indonesia (which has more muslims than any other nation). If they wanted a break for a few days, the nearest country they could go to was Thailand.

I've actually just looked this up and OP is correct. 16 countries infact prohibit Israeli passport holders from entering. You learn something new on MN everyday.

The thing is an enemy could potentially be anyone from any nationality.

Didn't Obama ban Iraqi's from entering the US for 6 months a few years back too?

Yes, more whataboutery.

But were South Africans ever banned from any countries when they practiced apartheid?

I thought it was quite well known that quite a few countries (eg Syria, Lebanon) have long banned Israelis or even anyone who has an Israeli stamp in their passport from entering the country.

Not to mention George Galloway saying he didn't want any Israelis in his constituency!

Doesn't justify what Trump is doing though.

And in fact many Arab countries ban anyone whose passport has an Israeli stamp, which is why the Passport Office will issue a second passport to people who need to visit both for business reasons. Not for pleasure reasons which is wrong, but a great deal less wrong than this.

South Africans, I think, had to apply for visas for many countries during the apartheid era.

I thought lots of people have two passports, one for going to Israel and one for the rest of the word. It feels like a fact I have known forever.

Since when is "Muslim" a nationality, OP? And you're really going to compare refugees escaping a war zone to Israel government's much-criticised "apartheid" policies?

Yeah Obama stared this !

Noone can say trump is inconsistent 😡

Why say it's whataboutery? That seems like you just want to shut down any discussion.

Wishfor an American colleague tore a strip
off someone today for saying 'Obama would never have done this.'

When I was growing up in the Middle East, most of us had two passports so we could see family in Israel.

Yes loads of European or North American travellers have an Israel passport and a non-Israel passport - they made a big thing of swapping from one to the other on the Top Gear Middle East Special as I recall.

I tend to think it's their Country, so not really any of our business. You are correct in that many of these Countries themselves ban people entering if they have been to Israel. Again, their Country, their choice. It wasn't that long ago we had 9/11, and I think Trump has said the main reason for this temporary ban is security.

That is true OP, I travelled in Israel and so was banned from going to many nearby countries.

I think this just feels more unfair because so many people coming from the banned countries are searching for a better life and are escaping awful situations.

Plus it's so sudden and has led to detention of innocent people.

So let's ban refugees fleeing from the governments who ban the Israelis then???

Two wrongs don't make a right. Ethics and morals isn't about doing unto others what they would do unto you. It's about doing what is right regardless.

I'm guessing that none of the countries who banned Israeli passport holders have religious freedoms enshrined in their constitution.
As my mum would say just because someone does something wrong doesn't mean you should stoop to their level.

wishfor

Because whataboutery is typically a debating technique used to distract away from the actual point or discussion. It's misdirection... like someone standing up to say "I am here today to acknowledge and apologise for.... oooh look, a pretty flower"

At least in this instance some might find out a little more about the middle east's political landscape, but it simply is nothing remotely connected to Trump's Executive Order

Didn't Obama ban Iraqi's from entering the US for 6 months a few years back too?

No. Obama's administration revised vetting procedures for some Iraqis which slowed down - didn't stop, didn't ban - visa applications and refugee applications. Trump saying Obama did the same thing he's doing now is either ignorant, lying, or both.

There is no But! It is an incredibly narrow minded policy. Which will only increase tensions between religions and do we don't need to look far to see how that works out. Northern Ireland is a perfect example of what happens when one religion is pitted against another.