To think the trump Muslim ban is wrong BUT

[HannahSmithson45]

Many of the same countries ban entry for people from Israel or who have ever been to Israel.

It's not the same. United Nations have made a judgment that Israel is guilty of war crimes l, and the Arab governments accepted that judgment as justification to sanction travel to israelis until the sovereign government of Israel conforms to international law

This

Your lovely Netanyahu just told Trump that he is all for the wall along the border and will help to build it.

Lots of countries have done similar.issues exist between countries (nearly always a Muslim/Christian divide) don't even think of trying to cross the Cypriot boarder in a hire car! Unfortunately, the tension between the two cultures is there and sometimes it feels as though the Muslim world is lagging (500-1000 years behind the largely Christian west and given then time frame of the religions it's maybe not surprising to see elements of the 1500s). But this is not the answer and likely to provoke more trouble

WrongTrouser Thank you for the apology. I suspect a majority of Americans are not in favor of gun control. The second amendment should have been repealed as soon as the US had an organized military.

Apols
Have committed crime of not reading whole thread

But in case this is news to those saying "think of 9/11 "

Most of the attackers were from Saudi, not on the list trump has made

Also I think of 9/11 every fucking day of my life because I lost loved ones in there

I blame the perpetrators of the attack

Four parents of those I lost have been out marching against Trump

The people I lost would be out marching against Trump

FFS stop using 9/11 as some kind of "explanation" for irrational bigotry and hatred.

DebbieDowners The Women's March wasn't just about Trump grabbing women, despite the pussy hats. He pushed so many people's hot buttons that it was about a lot more than that. People were marching for access to good public education, for environmental protection, for equal opportunities for all including minorities, for life for everyone, for gay rights, for the US constitution, for fair treatment of workers. That is why you saw such huge turnouts in the US, it wasn't one march, it was tens of marches.

If you and the others who felt like you had gone on the march with placards calling attention to the Yazidi women, Erdogan, or FGM it would have been a march for them too. But you didn't.

Although 9/11 was Saudis, haven't several of the recent atrocities been committed by refugees? (Unfortunate for the rest of the refugees, of course.) Or have the press misreported this?

River - "But a ban on Muslims (not saying it's fine , obvs) is not ok and people are taking to the streets. "

Why shouldn't people take to the streets to protect the rights of Muslim people? Look how many people march on the street to protest their hate towards Muslims (EDL, Britain First etc). Nobody stops them. Innocent Muslim have had so much shit thrown at them, how much should they have to take before the ordinary person speaks up on their behalf? I'm proud of the people who took to their streets

Im not totally against the bans per se. Banning people from certain countries because of a terrorist threat is an justified reaction to real threats. However none of the countries that Trump has banned have actually committed any murders of US citizens on US soil, which is exactly what this ban purports to want to prevent. And in fact, four countries left off the list (Saudi/Lebanon/Egypt/UAE) are the ones that have committed terrorist acts on US soil. So it tells me that Trump is either thick as shit and is badly advised, or he's willing to risk US lives for the sake of business money as i read that Trump has business interests in all four let off the hook, or he is just using the fear of terrorists to mask his prejudice of refugees. Cant decide which is worse or more likely.

sorry information i read was attacks by foreign terrorists only up to 2015 so not taking into account attacks that happened last year.

"Bagel - really? Israel are not innocent you know. Do you ever wonder why Isis concentrate their attacks on Europe rather than Israel, who they hate so much and are actually down the road?

Israel and Saudi are at the heart of all of the problems in the Middle East. The 2 of them have the power to wipe it off the map, or let it flourish. They have chosen the former"

Yip, Israel is the big bad meanie of the area. out of all the countries surrounding Israel and have a problem with it - if i had to choose one to live in with my kids? Would be Israel. Which would you choose then?

Sorry, Bemba, I don't understand what I said that annoyed you?

I never said Israel is the big bad meanie. I said they weren't perfect, which they aren't, particularly Bibi. And gave lots of context, so please explain...

*Bamba

UAE

I'm sure Israel are just sat there, minding their own business. Thanking their lucky stars that they are the same distance from Syria that London is from Glasgow yet all those Isis meanies would prefer to cross the Mediterranean on a dinghy and cross 6 borders on foot to get to France to kill some Christians, rather than a day trip to Israel to kill their supposed arch enemies the Jews.

Bagel - Bambam was quoting a post of mine, where I had replied to you hence why your name is in Bambam's post

Wasn't directed at you Bagel, your name was included in the quote - dorry for the misunderstanding.

It's no worse or better than trumps ban it's exactly the same

It's not exactly the same. Trump is banning people from countries that have done nothing to harm Americans.
Some Arab countries band Israeli citizens....Israel has most certainly harmed Arabs. Whether you agree with the sanctions or not, you can't pretend they don't have grounds for bad feeling,

I think isis would love to do some damage to israel and jews. seems they'd rather choose softer targets.

Narky re Arab countries banning Jews - as I said before

*Again, notwithstanding dubious actions taken by Israel by various and usually right wing governments, Arab countries do not ban Israelis because of politics, they ban them because they HATE them purely because they are Jews."

I don't agree. It's good rhetoric but it totally disregards the reality for many people. You can't just say those "dubious" (massive understatement) actions don't affect peoples feelings, and its offensive to be so reductionist about complicated matters.

You might as well say that Israelis hate Palestinians purely because they are Arabs.

Maybe you can go back and read some of my other posts. Of course I could go into more detail, but that would take a loooong time. I was simply trying to say that there is fault on both sides, neither side has behaved in the best way possible. I completely accept that people's realities on both sides have been severely affected by the actions of politicians.

Honestly, I could go on but I'm so tired I'm going to bed.

Trump and Netanyahu are so alike.

Motivated by racist populist ideology.

Trump has sacked the attorney general Sally Yates. It just gets worse.

oh ffs. how many of the anti israel tribe have actually ever lived there? been there even? know any israelis? actually MET AND TALKED to any israelis? i answer yes to all of those. most of them want peace, don't agree with the ocupied settlements, have no issues with palastinians on a personal level. when i lived there is knew and had as friends, many arab israelis (non jewish) friends. they had equal rights. noone cared that they were muslim. it is VERY different living there than the media dictates over here. as a jew i was never brought up to hate muslims, only fear them if anything as we knew that a disproportionate amount didn't like us purely for being jewish which is ridiculous as we are very closely related. my closest friend is muslim and even she told me early on in our friendship that (quote) her dad 'hated jews'. cheers for that. i remember being in a local newsagent in notting hill years ago (queensway where there was a large arab/muslim population). there were rows of magazines with antisemitic literature ie derogatury pictures of jewish women. i didn't say anything as i was so shocked and upset. i would now though. i can't imagine a regular newsagent doing that or even wanting to. there needs to be peace between the palastinians and israelis. they are relatives and belong together......

Wholepace, are you telling me that Arab israelis had the same rights???? And you claim to have lived there!

how many of the anti israel tribe have actually ever lived there

None of us are "Anti-Israel". Stating facts about what has happened does not make one Anti-Israel.
Neither are we Anti-US because of what happens there.

This tendency to call anyone who is remotely critical of Israeli policies or actions as anti-Israeli, or worse anti semitic, is a defensive and offensive lie designed purely to shut down debate.