To think the trump Muslim ban is wrong BUT

[HannahSmithson45]

Many of the same countries ban entry for people from Israel or who have ever been to Israel.

*So if other countries are racist it makes it ok for America to be as well? hmm

Shit policies in other countries don't make it ok for America to have shit policies.*

No it doesn't but it's not just trump who's doing unacceptable policies that punish all from a faith/nationality.

It's no worse or better than trumps ban it's exactly the same.

Low Comotion: all the Arab countries with the exception of Jordan and Egypt.

Not true in practice for those who are visiting.

I have been to Israel and to many surrounding countries. Both Israel and surrounding countries don't seem to take notice of visa /entry stamps informing them that I have been to the other countries. I am an academic and enter all these countries for work reasons.

Malaysia, Indonesia for starters. It's not a new nor challenged thing.

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but=

apart from being racist and rude, what is the problem with these bans?

Please don't attack - I am trying to work out how to think of them. I usually describe myself as a bleeding heart liberal so I'm confused that I don't automatically know what the real problem is.. is it an economic thing? is it because the US should take refugees? I just can't really get worked up about this because I'm ignorant of the real problem..

Waffling because I'm ashamed of myself..

just because someone does something wrong doesn't mean you should stoop to their level.

No it doesn't, but equally those outraged should also be outraged at countries that ban Israelis.

These are refugees, not people travelling for business or on vacation. These are people who are receiving death threats against them and their families because they helped the US military in Iraq.

The ban is poor, with racist motives, has been successfully challenged in court A federal judge blocked the ban, but the Customs and Border Patrol are ignoring the judge, detaining people and refusing to give them access to legal representation. For the executive arm of the US government to ignore the judicial arm is a huge deal constitutionally. People are seriously pissed, and worried, by it, and they should be. The judicial branch has even been taken off the White House website. It's a clear message that those in charge are going to plough ahead regardless and ignore those who should have the power to stop them. Four senators went to JFK to try and force the block to be imposed, they were sent away with fleas in their ears.

Think twin towers!.
If i lived in USA i would like to know my safety was been put before all other considerations..............
We do not have a right to go where ever we want when ever we want, that is why a lot of people in this country voted out of the EU.
Borders are there for a purpose, or at least they used to be, look how that worked out for Germany, not so clever now.

No. Although every country makes sh 1 t policies. America is no different.

Please don't attack - I am trying to work out how to think of them. I usually describe myself as a bleeding heart liberal so I'm confused that I don't automatically know what the real problem is.. is it an economic thing? is it because the US should take refugees? I just can't really get worked up about this because I'm ignorant of the real problem..

The problem with bans is they punish as a collective. So whether we like it or not them countries have had terrorism problems but the idea that everyone should be banned(punished) because of the actions of their fellow citizens or government is stupid.

If you are outraged, then you go ahead and organize protests and marches to support the Israelis. I'm getting really sick of people complaining that people aren't marching for their 'hot button' topic, but they aren't willing to organize anything themselves.

These are refugees, not people travelling for business or on vacation. These are people who are receiving death threats against them and their families because they helped the US military in Iraq.

It doesn't change the key principle and my point which is that those against ban should be against all bans not just when America does it.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Yes I'm outraged at a number of countries' policies, including those of my own. I just don't mention the whole long list every time I talk about a country that's pissed me off, because it would take far too long and would make for pretty boring discussions lectures.

It isn't 'whataboutery'

What Trump is doing is bad.

The countries that ban Israelis is bad. It isn't well known, however, as this thread shows.

Yes OP because two wrongs make a right. FFS!

To get around the Israeli thing, you just need to apply for a 2nd passport.
People escaping from awful situations don't have that luxury.

I can see that its stupid - and short sighted.. I think of all those amazing scientists and artists who went to the States during and after WWII

But at the same time - why is it anyone's right to go anywhere? (I say this as an immigrant - god help me)

Yes OP because two wrongs make a right. FFS!

Where has the OP said that it does.

If you are outraged, then you go ahead and protests and marches to support the Israelis. I'm getting really sick of people complaining that people aren't marching for their 'hot button' topic, but they aren't willing to organize anything themselves.

No the people against the trump ban should also stand against Arab countries baning Israelis. We are all citizens of the earth and humans. No one should be banned regardless of faith. But many on the left seem to only feel that way when it comes to western nations doing things and are happy to ignore the other countries in the world that do the same.

Forgive me but isn't this a 3 month ban until they can put into place a proper vetting system? Am I mistaken?
Its just I saw someone in Iraq crying saying his dreams were ruined as he wanted to apply to live in the states....( Sky News - he helps reporters and is thought of as a spy he said by whom I dont know ) but he wants to get out.

Why does he think he will now never get in ever?

As far as I can see a collective is being punished for three months.....

16 countries infact prohibit Israeli passport holders from entering

Astounded.

For clarity, a list of the countries which ban Israeli passport holders:

Algeria
Bangladesh
Brunei
Iran
Iraq
Kuwait
Lebanon
Libya
Malaysia
Oman
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Sudan
Syria
United Arab Emirates
Yemen

I'm pretty much in a constant state of outrage as it is, I resent being told that I'm not upset enough about everything

This radio presenter explains the issue pretty well.

www.facebook.com/LBC/videos/10154711938241558/

Muslims aren't banned. Citizens of certain countries are temporarily not allowed to enter the US.

The facts are bad enough without having to exaggerate or make stuff up!

Vicky This has nothing to do with the safety of me and my fellow Americans.

The terrorists who bombed the twin towers were from UAE, Lebanon, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, countries conspicuously missing from Trump's list. They are also countries that Trump has business dealings in. You know which countries he doesn't have business ties to - Yemen, Somalia, Iraq etc. It is my uninformed opinion that Trump is trying to fulfill one of his campaign promises without offending his business partners.

This will actually make US citizens less safe. It is going to stir up bad feeling amongst Muslims the world over and push some into the arms of ISIS. It is going to make locals in Iraq and Afghanistan not want to help the US military because they know if the going gets tough they will be left hanging in the wind.

You know who kills the most Americans every year in the US? People born in the US. Try to ask for gun control to help reduce the chances of mass shootings and see how keen President Trump is to protect the safety of Americans.

Borders are there for a purpose, or at least they used to be, look how that worked out for Germany, not so clever now.

Do you not know what a refugee is? Or do you just not care about what anyone else might be suffering?

The US turned away refugees from Germany in the 1930s. Jewish refugees. Want to guess what happened to them?