To think the trump Muslim ban is wrong BUT

[HannahSmithson45]

Many of the same countries ban entry for people from Israel or who have ever been to Israel.

I actually think that everything that's gone on in the first few weeks is all a genius play by Trump in his office.

When he was elected, everyone laughed at the Republican voters that Trump had lied to them: "there'll be no way he'll build a wall", "no chance for the Muslim ban", "he won't get approval".

His first 2 weeks and he's gone in all guns blazing on his biggest campaign promises.

Of course there is outcry.

He will back down on this just like he will back down on all of them, before it gets too far. And when he backs down, he will say to his voters that he tried but because of pressure, was not able to execute his plans. The voters will think "yeah he did but all those lefties decided to protest and take him to the courts. Thus protecting his position as leader of the Republican Party and the voters

Again, notwithstanding dubious actions taken by Israel by various and usually right wing governments, Arab countries do not ban Israelis because of politics, they ban them because they HATE them purely because they are Jews.

I am not going to go into more politics here, it is so bloody complicated, but the above is true.

There are many Arabs in Israel, Muslim and Christian. Beduins and other minorities, including significant numbers of refugees from Sudan and workers from Thailand and the Philippines. I always remember talking to some Christian Arabs in Nazareth a few years ago. The thing they were most frightened of? The increase in radicalised Muslim Arabs who have increased in number and are extremely intolerant to the Christian Arab communities. There are Arab MPS in the Parliament and all born in Israel have voting rights - the implications of the proportional representation system would require another long post!

You can also check the help Israeli disaster rescue teams give all over the world. Also, a news story about a Syrian lady who was taken to Israel for medical help and has named her newborn daughter Sarah as a reflection of her gratitude to Israelis who helped her.

Well Maybe I have been in a deep deep sleep but I have not seen any protests on this scale about all the recent issues that have been going on....Even at Erdoğan press conference - ie a man who is truly acting in a scary way who is setting women's rights back - etc etc etc and yet still the obsession was with Trump.

Why do you think this is?

Derlei Would you forbid British people from visiting Israel? Would you forbid Israelis from coming here as tourists or to visit relations? Would you allow councils to "forbid" their employees from going there, as some councils did in respect of South Africa in the Eighties?

Erdogan holds an incredibly important position between Europe and the Middle East. The wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria mean Western govts are treading v carefully. Doesn't mean it's right, of course.

"Since when is "Muslim" a nationality, OP? And you're really going to compare refugees escaping a war zone to Israel government's much-criticised "apartheid" policies?"

It's not a Muslim ban, it's a ban on 7 nationalities, a list created by Obama, not Trump.

Can we have some more posts diverting us away from the topic of this thread, please?

It was not created by Obama, roses. Either research or read the thread.

I think national borders are there for a reason. That's what makes a country, gives you a sense of pride and achievement

I think it's a bit tricky for Americans of European origin to get too precious about protecting their borders from others. In the big scheme of things they are all pretty recent immigrants, and Trump's family is more recent than most.

Derlei and Bagel some interesting posts thank you.

16 countries in fact prohibit Israeli passport holders from entering

Thing is, most of the world is anti-Semitic, and Trump has some openly explicitly anti-Semites in his advisory group & informal cabinet.

Anti-semitism is so "normal" that it's just part of the white noise of racism.

Hygellig - I don't think anyone should ban refugees.

It's not a Muslim ban

Except that Trump's associates (Giuliani) don't seem to have got that message.

It's quite simple. Lots of these places that oppose Israel and the Jews are run by inherently not very nice people, it's certainly not pleasant to live there. Especially if you disagree with those not very nice people. Its perverse to blame refugees for the policies of their governments.
That might explain why they produce refugees? Nice places don't really tend to.

May I just remind that the EO was titled: protecting the nation from foreign terrorist entry into the United States.

It has clearly been demonstrated with facts, not altfacts, that there is significantly more threat from Americans wielding guns than any foreign nationals.

Trump has also piped up on Twitter venting that it's now also about protecting jobs for US nationals.

The man, and the ban are dangerous and we actually have a chance to influence the country he runs to do something about it.

Israel hasn't stamped passports for ages. In fact, I think it's been 10 years or more?! Not that I'm defending Trump's atrocities, of course.

Bagel I know re his position but that shouldn't stop people from protesting here surely?

Trump said he thought "enhanced terrorism worked" he then backed down and said he would lead it to whoever was in charge to decide. Erogan on the other hand is using torture, he is beating people, he is locking them up and dissapearing them.

Mumzypopz Mon 30-Jan-17 18:09:43

"I tend to think it's their Country, so not really any of our business. "

That's what we said when Germany invaded Poland.

That ended well.

It has clearly been demonstrated with facts, not altfacts, that there is significantly more threat from Americans wielding guns than any foreign nationals

Personally I cant disagree with that, I think US gun laws are dreadful.

Well the banning of Israelis was certainly a very well kept secret. Not surprised though with the left's attitude. The whole thing is propaganda IMHO. An excuse for all the lefties to be up in arms. They always need a cause. Remind me never to vote Labour again.

I don't think some of you actually understand what is happening and why this is so scary. The US Government is supposed to have many checks and balances. Trump is acting illegally, has got rid of lots of staff who would be fighting against things he does, has shut senior military and defence out of crucial decision making meetings. No other President has done this. The US is now being ruled by a very small group of people. That is unprecedented

This with knobs on.

And this, taken from an article today..
"The regime’s main organizational goal right now is to transfer all effective power to a tight inner circle, eliminating any possible checks from either the Federal bureaucracy, Congress, or the Courts. Departments are being reorganized or purged to effect this.
And this
The aims of crushing various groups — Muslims, Latinos, the black and trans communities, academics, the press — are very much primary aims of the regime, and are likely to be acted on with much greater speed than was earlier suspected. The secondary aim of personal enrichment is also very much in play, and clever people will find ways to play these two goals off each other"

An excuse for all the lefties to be up in arms. They always need a cause. Remind me never to vote Labour again.

Can't you just write it on your forehead or a post it note instead? I'm not sure I can be bothered.

Bagel, I read a fascinating memoir by a British Jewish woman who lived in a small Arab town for a few years in Israel, so Israeli arabs with Israeli citizenship. She claimed the Israeli Arab villages received much less funding from the the government for schools, housing, infrastructure etc. She felt it was a two tier system. I do believe Israel has the right to exist but its governments, and especially the current Bibi one, have undeniably oppressed those in the occupied territories and do not treat Israeli Arabs equally. The Israeli political situation is as I am sure you know so very nuanced and complicated with neither side covering themselves in glory. It is very sad and both sides suffer in different ways.

Again, notwithstanding dubious actions taken by Israel by various and usually right wing governments, Arab countries do not ban Israelis because of politics, they ban them because they HATE them purely because they are Jews

Yes Bagel sad, but true.

Thanks , op - the lack of marches about travel bans on.Israelis for decades had also occurred to me...

America does a lot of bad stuff. Israel does bad stuff.

I think that Trump wants a Muslim ban, (except from his business interests, he will exempt them) and the Muslim countries that ban Israelis want a jew ban. Some of those countries are now on the receiving end .

But it won't be the politicians that suffer.