To think the trump Muslim ban is wrong BUT

[HannahSmithson45]

Many of the same countries ban entry for people from Israel or who have ever been to Israel.

Vicky is probably an avid Daily Mail reader.

I think he is right to keep his promises to his electorate. Our politicians should do the same....remember Nick Clegg and university fees.

I came to post in this thread but some of the replies just make me want to scream obscenities at certain posters that'll get me my first deletion.

So I'm going to leave and scream 'racist cunts' at my pillow instead.

The pilots in the twin towers attacks were from Miami, weren't they?

You can't ban people from a huge faith just because some were terrorists. It's like saying they all had brown eyes, let's ban everyone with brown eyes. It's utterly ridiculous.

some people seem to think it was fine for Obama to bomb seven Muslim majority countries but to ban them from entry is to much weird

I believe the Israel issue is slightly more complicated (although the ultimate effect on travel is the same) in that it is not that Israelis are banned, but that the countries in question do not recognise the legitimacy of Israel as a nation, and therefore do not recognise Israeli passports. The Israel national football team do not compete in the Asian confederation for this reason (among others).

Also, Obama's implementation made it harder/ slower for new visas to be issued...he didn't stop people who already had valid visas, green cards or dual citizenship.

That's really helpful bummy and I'm sure will convince whichever posters it's aimed at that they are wrong. It certainly worked well with the referendum campaign.

Bagel - really? Israel are not innocent you know. Do you ever wonder why Isis concentrate their attacks on Europe rather than Israel, who they hate so much and are actually down the road?

Israel and Saudi are at the heart of all of the problems in the Middle East. The 2 of them have the power to wipe it off the map, or let it flourish. They have chosen the former.

Andrew - your post makes no sense. The US is doing what the Arab states are doing, however my point is that the Arab states have a legitimate reason based on United Nations judgments. Not on some paranoid madman on a power trip

Honestly though, I can't think of a better way to turn a group of people against another group than things like this.

There's a photo on Facebook of Jews with their concentration camp tattoos. I hope to Christ Trump doesn't go that far but he seems like he wants to. You can't define people just by their religion. More hate institutions the answer.

Also it's worth pointing out many of the Israelis probably have roots in many of the banned countries. This is because those countries oppressed Jews so much they had to move to Israel. So they are effectively being barred from places they have deep connections with.

Mysteriousjackelope you said exactly what I was going to, the ban does NOT make American citizens safer. In the same way British extremists are much more common than immigrant terrorists. I've heard plenty of court cases involving terrorism and they have all been British born Muslims who turned extremist or Brits who weren't even Muslim originally but got converted by extremists.

If turning away refugees fleeing ISIS gives you a sense of pride and achievement, you need to have a good long word with yourself.

Out of curiosity..what do you plan to do with the refugees, say for the sake of clarity, 5 refugee men, when they are at your doorstep. Are you going to welcome them with open arms and say make yourself a cup of tea. Mi casa es su casa?

If that is the case, then yes I should have a good long word with myself.

Travel has not been banned from Pakistan or Belgium, which have exported far more terrorists.
The reason this is a big deal apart from the islamophobia which is bad enough, is that Trump has now concentrated power in a small number of people. No President has ever done this. This is very dangerous times.

Apartheid and commiting war crimes that lead to you being condemned by the UN are a "political stance" now? wow that's a new one.

We are getting away from core point. Which is ALL bans are wrong individuals are not responsible for their governments behaviour or fellow countryman. They should not be banned/punished for actions they had no control over.

And this has affected people who were actually flying when this was announced, and had relevant visas. Like the Christian family I saw being interviewed who were turned back, and said they had saved hard for these flights.

As far as I understand it, it's a big deal because it changes the existing rights of certain nationalities to travel to and within the US and overrides international agreements and treaties. The people being detained at airports have valid visas or green cards and have passed security vetting procedures and so therefore have a rightful expectation to be permitted to engage in lawful work, study and travel. Trump is preventing them from doing that. It's a big deal and could even be seen as unconstitutional.

It is not the same thing at all as a country imposing entry restrictions against citizens of a country that has been declared by the UN to have committed war crimes against citizens that are the same religion as the majority of the population of the country that has placed that restriction.

Derlei Mon 30-Jan-17 18:50:43

Interesting posts I must admit I never knew about this ban on Israelis either I am shocked.

I don't know much about it - I know from ITV program under cover in Saudi they teach (from actual work books) youngsters to hate Israelis - would that be the same in Israel? I also know much of the extreme form of Islam being spread over the world causing the issues is being pumped out of saudi, but again nothing of the Israel aspect...

Out of curiosity..what do you plan to do with the refugees, say for the sake of clarity, 5 refugee men, when they are at your doorstep.

If by 'at your doorstep' you mean 'in my country', then yes, I have worked with refugees and the organisations that help them. Including helping them to find their own houses, with their own doorsteps.

Would you like to hear more about what UK governments, local councils and charities are doing to help refugees? Or perhaps, more about why they're refugees in the first place?

hannah its a temporary ban though for three months....not like the other places mentioned which have permanent bans.

Let's make it clear again. Number of people killed by firearms in the US in 2015 was 13,286. The number of people killed by Muslim terrorists amounts to one third of one per cent of all the killings in the US.

MysteriousJackalope and bonbonours are correct. This won't make us safer, it will make us less safe.

More people have been killed by toddlers with guns than immigrants from these countries and yet Trump is all for guns.

For those who keep rerunning the 9/11 lie, please educate yourselves. They came from the exact countries Trump has exempted from the ban not because he has business dealings in those countries, honest

If all those who have suddenly started caring about countries that bar Israelis from travelling want to start a petition, then let me know, I'll probably sign it, but your silence up until this point has been deafening, and I very much doubt Israel would be amused by your using them as a talking point in this debate. It looks like virtue signalling and in fact all the Jewish groups I've seen/spoken to are appalled at what the Trump administration is doing, because it makes them less safe too and his timing absolutely sucked.

This is categorically a ban on Muslims, Guiliani has explicitly stated as much. Bannon refused to allow people with green cards or visas for which they have been vetted to have exemption. As bonbonbours says, we are at more risk of home grown terrorists, many of whom will have found their "brotherhood" within the prison system because of their vulnerability. Death cults are the same as all cults and look for the vulnerable and disaffected and draw them in. This is not to say that they are then not culpable by any means.

This move won't stop terrorists. It will cause them.

Just being honest wrong.

I've tried reasoned arguments to the point where I have nothing left in me now. A Brit in the US I'm just wanting to crawl in to a hole and hope it all goes away. Or move to Finland.

Are you going to welcome them with open arms and say make yourself a cup of tea. Mi casa es su casa?

Yes.

Why wouldn't I?