AIBU to think this woman at the gym was rude?

[sofiathesecond]

Just finished showering dd at the gym, woman goes 'ooh what lovely hair she has, is she half or quarter-caste?'

Hate the term 'half-caste', I would always say mixed race. Aside from this, I also think asking mine or my daughter's racial identity is a bit rude. AIBU?

HOW would the woman's question have been better if she used different language?

"ooh what lovely hair she has, is she half or quarter black?"

"ooh what lovely hair she has, does she have dual or tri-heritage?"

Nope. This is still rude, intrusive and unreasonable to ask a stranger!

Of course use of the phrase half-caste is unacceptable but I don't see how the question would be ok if a different phrase was used?

I get "innocent" comments like this from strangers when I'm out with my nephews, along the lines of "so where's their dad from?" or "does the school let them wear their hair like that?"
How do people think these things are acceptable conversation opener?! Why would I want to talk to someone who thinks that is ok, or take it upon myself to correct their use of racist language or racist assumptions? Especially when my DNephews find it upsetting and want me to explain why the lady on the bus was asking me about their dad or their hair.

I posted earlier about my faux pas using the wrong expression in a conversation and overlooked the part where the OP was questioned about her daughter's ethnicity. My family is not indigenous to the country we live in and I am very loud and proud about our background but I can easily imagine scenarios where a stranger asking me about it might seem intrusive or racist.

So OP, my reconsidered response is YANBU . It sounds like the lady in question was old fashioned, tactless and overstepped the mark.

Why is it OK to talk about hair but not about race? Aren't we turning race and heritage into unnecessary taboos?

I come from a large mixed race family. Many of them would refer to themselves as half caste. I am not so obviously mixed race but my name often raises questions and usually people assume I am from a certain region (though my heritage lies in a different one altogether). Never been offended by it though.

I'm surprised at those in their 30s ho grew up hearing 'half caste'. I'm 50 and remember it as a child, but not since my teens, so in the 80s.

As for the original question, I think it was ignorant rather than racist, though agree it's odd in someone her age.

I'm 49 and have even referred to my half brother as half caste, because my stepdad always referred to himself as such when I was growing up. I try to correct myself now.

Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't really get worked up about it.
Her terminology may be out of date but not everyone realises.
I'm not yet 30 and growing up on outskirts London everybody said half caste.
I know better now but not everyone gets a lesson in it!

I'm not yet 30 and growing up on outskirts London everybody said half caste.

I find that shocking. I bet I can guess roughly what London outskirts that would have been.

I work for a BME women's charity and I know the heritage of all my collegues - it's something we've talked about and they're happy to tell people.
If I'd walked in on my first day and questioned their heritage that would have been rude. It's not that race is taboo it's just that questioning a strangers race in the shower is not only intrusive but the person being questioned might well have had lots of conversations that started with a simple question about heritage and led to overt racism and abuse

I think that's bizarre.
"Your DD has lovely hair" is as far as I would ever have gone. And I'd probably have said it direct to your DD within your hearing: "Oh I love you hair sweetie, it's beautiful". And I probably wouldn't have said it in the showers. But I really really wouldn't have asked about her heritage!

It sounds like the lady in the OP didn't mean to be insulting, she was ignorant not belligerant.

Someone else said it well, at age 49 I'm too old to play these games. The older you get the more intolerable they get.

Coloured is bad but NAACP is fine, Person of Colour is fine.

Negro is bad except when used by the UNIA.
Black became bad so we were told to say African American, except Whoopi Goldberg is fine with black but can't stand being called AA.
Now some people are saying they find mixed an insult...

If very curious I might ask what someone's ethnic heritage was, now I wonder when "heritage" and "ethnic" will become dirty words, too.

Pah.

This reminds me of the poem Half Caste by John Agard which used to be on the (UK) English GCSE syllabus. I heard people use the term when I was a young child, but by the time I was a teenager, it was generally viewed as an outdated and offensive term (I suspect largely as a result of teenagers having to study poetry form other cultures in school as it gave marginalised groups a voice they didn't have before and forced people to listen).

I'm not defending people using the term, as people should be educated and not excused because they're old or from elsewhere. However, despite having appreciated the sentiment of Agard's poem and understanding why the term was offensive, as a white woman, I only really appreciated the extent of the potential pain caused by the description 'half-caste' very recently. One of my parents is Irish and one English, and I've always referred to myself as 'half Irish' without a second thought. It was only on the day of the European referendum result, faced with the prospect that my two national identities weren't aligned for the first time in my life, that I realised how hugely significant it is to be wholly Irish and wholly English and not just half of each.

I would imagine there are half-siblings out there that feel similarly about the idea that they're somehow less close or connected than 'full' siblings. The focus should be on the positive and on the connection and that the use of 'half' implies a deficiency.

Obviously, we need to have terms to describe these attributes, but I see the term half-caste as a clumsy and offensive anachronism which has no place in modern society.

lljkk

How can all black people be described as "African American" when we're not all from America?

I find your "pah" far more insulting than anyone innocently using the wrong word to describe my heritage, to be honest. At least they can be corrected and then learn to use words that are not offensive. Your nonchalance about it is just plain rude, to be quite honest.

I'm in my 30s and when I was a teenager in a very very diverse part of South East London, half-caste was the term people of all races used. So I'm not sure why people find it unbelievable that a woman in her 40s wouldn't be aware it isn't an acceptable term now.

I'm American so African-American rather relevant, anyway, it's a debate that gets hotly contested in USA.

The "Pah" is because no matter how hard I try, I will never get it right. Pretty logical to give up trying to make everyone happy.

If very curious I might ask what someone's ethnic heritage was

All you need to do is 'read the room'.

You can generally start a conversation about family and background without asking a random person whether they are 'half caste'.

I really struggle to understand what information that would give you about a complete stranger anyway.

I am sure that, given the nature of the country, Americans probably do discuss ethnic background more than in other countries. However I'm also sure that it's possible to have a conversation that doesn't start with 'are you half caste?'.

Eeerm, probably also possible to write a sentence that doesn't include 'I'm sure!'

Pretty logical to give up trying to make everyone happy.

Avoiding using offensive language is not "trying to make everyone happy". It's trying to make yourself less ignorant. But hey ho, if that's something that's illogical to you then don't be surprised when people think of you as an ignorant racist.

It s the sort of thing my 46 year old friend would say. She has three kids with her black husband and refers to their race as half-caste.

I have a black aunt in the states but I've been told not to say black over there by our family and always use African American because black is offensive.

I see this a lot on MN, and I really think that generally speaking, it misrepresents the situation in the US. I think that it is more of a preference; I don't know anyone who finds "black" offensive in the US. In fact, opinion polls have shown in the past a preference among black people for "black." Barack Obama refers to himself as black. And then of course, there is the "Black Lives Matter" movement. Why would this modern day civil rights movement use a term that is offensive?

What can be considered problematical is to talk about "the blacks or a black." Black is an adjective in the US when referring to race, not a noun.