Page 5 | AIBU to think this woman at the gym was rude?

sofiathesecond · 2017-01-05T13:40:35+00:00

Just finished showering dd at the gym, woman goes 'ooh what lovely hair she has, is she half or quarter-caste?' Hate the term 'half-caste', I would always say mixed race. Aside from this, I also think asking mine or my daughter's racial identity is a bit rude. [hmm]AIBU?

Aki23 · 05/01/2017 16:01

ignorant but would still get a glare from me

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 16:04

allchatted - would you be ok with a stranger asking you about a genetic feature of yours - say a birthmark? As in - 'Oh that's an interesting birthmark what caused that?'-at the gym?

Not really the same as birth marks are generally regarded as being a 'birth defect' and can you really say what causes birthmarks? However, a few weeks ago I was speaking my native language with my mum on the train. A lady was sat on the same block of four seats and asked us what language we were speaking and where we were from and we started chatting and it turned out her son had been to my mum's country of origin. That's surely a personal question- I was actually brought up in this country but speak the other language fluently and I explained this. I would say that incident is much more similar than asking someone about what caused a birthmark (who does that???)

merrymouse · 05/01/2017 16:04

allchattedout - I think it's perfectly fair to not ask any personal questions of someone you just encountered in a gym changing room.

Completely agree.

I also don't want complete strangers to suddenly ask about my marital status in a gym changing room. I'm happy to talk about the showers not working or exchange grimaces with another parent or talk about swimming, but I would find it very odd if I was standing in the shower and somebody suddenly asked me what I did for a living.

Ask more personal questions when you have reached the 'getting to know you' stage of a relationship, don't just fire them at random strangers.

TheSparrowhawk · 05/01/2017 16:06

'Not really the same as birth marks are generally regarded as being a 'birth defect' and can you really say what causes birthmarks?'

And you think race is a totally straightforward, uncomplicated, positive thing? No problems or negative things about asking about someone's race at all?

shggg245 · 05/01/2017 16:10

This sums it up for me. My friend was studying his masters in social work. He's mixed race and described himself as such.

White middle class lecturer berated him for using the term mixed race, she said 'it's dual heritage - mixed race is both offensive and racist'. He said 'thankyou so much for enlightening me about about racism but there's no fucking way I'm calling myself dual heritage just because you say I should'. He was absolutely incensed.

tonymac84 · 05/01/2017 16:10

@sofiathesecond the compliment about the hair was nice but I think the terminology used was through ignorance, rather than any kind of hatred. Strange thing to mention to someone you don't know

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 16:10

Ask more personal questions when you have reached the 'getting to know you' stage of a relationship, don't just fire them at random strangers

That's quite interesting. I agree that suddenly asking someone in the shower if they are married or what they do for a living (!) is weird if it's not in the context of a conversation. However, sometimes when I have had to give my name I get something like 'oh, that's an unusual name- is it xxxx?'. Usually followed by 'it's a lovely name'. I would probably say that to people too. I am just interested in whether you would find that rude too because that would also be a complete stranger.

Also if someone has negative feelings about their heritage, surely it would never be OK to ask them about it, even if it is a new friend or someone you are chatting with at a party.

Fatmouse · 05/01/2017 16:12

My daughter is mixed race with copper red curly hair which alot of people comment on and the odd ones have asked if she's mixed but I've never took offence to it.

charlestonchaplin · 05/01/2017 16:13

I'm under 40, and half-caste was standard terminology in the black African country I spent part of my childhood in. My friend, whose mother was half Czech used to call herself quarter-caste. These were not used in a derogatory fashion at all, in fact it was sadly true that if you had any white ancestry you were at an advantage. Not anything systematic, like apartheid, just that they seemed to be very popular, considered good-looking, and just generally attracted positive attention purely from being pale-skinned with longer, straighter hair.

So perhaps this person has not been in the UK long enough to understand what is considered acceptable.

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 16:14

And you think race is a totally straightforward, uncomplicated, positive thing? No problems or negative things about asking about someone's race at all?

I agree, unfortunately not. This may be why some posters think it is OK and some do not. I frequently get asked about my heritage due to appearance, name and when I am speaking to family out and about. However, I am proud of my heritage (I don't want to be 100% pure white English, whatever that is) and I would not get offended. I am happy people ask and am happy to chat to them about it. It might be different if you feel that people would react negatively to your race.

Backingvocals · 05/01/2017 16:14

It's true I dont see the need for ethnicity questions but if somone was trying to identify someone but didnt know their name "You know, the woman from the client services team" you might want to say "the mixed race woman" or "the red haired woman" or whatever. I dont think I could say "the woman of colour" because someone might not view that in the Diane Abbott way iyswim.

merrymouse · 05/01/2017 16:15

That's surely a personal question

Asking what language you are speaking isn't a personal question. It would be rude if you were obviously having a very private conversation, or if she were interrupting you, but a language isn't personal to you. Anybody can speak any language.

TheUpsideDown · 05/01/2017 16:16

I think that as she was paying a compliment about your dd's hair, she was generally well-meaning.

Some people just don't realise that 'half-caste' is not a term we use anymore and is now pretty offensive. Personally I would just consider her use of that term, in this context, uneducated.

However I think she over-stepped a boundary by asking if she was "half or quarter". Paying a compliment about hair is one thing, but being nosey about something so personal about a total stranger is quite rude. But again, I think she was trying to pay a compliment and be friendly...albeit rather clumsily, and obviously it backfired.

Its possible she's sat afterwards, felt awful and thought "I can't believe I asked her that!"

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 16:17

merrymouse I gave another example of when people comment on my name if I am signing up for something. That's got to be personal, right? And I also get 'are you Scandinavian?' sometimes, based on hair colour and appearance. What is your take on those?

Iwannabelikecommonpeople · 05/01/2017 16:18

Read a few replies at first but couldn't continue..some of you think this is ok or even acceptable?? WTAF ? This is most definitely racist and beyond ignorant..and very depressing.

TheSparrowhawk · 05/01/2017 16:20

'It might be different if you feel that people would react negatively to your race.'

I think considering the extremely difficult history and ongoing problems many people who aren't white experience, it's safer to assume that commenting on race isn't acceptable. Naturally if someone told me they were absolutely fine with being asked about their heritage or with the terms half-caste or mixed race then I'd take their word for it. But I would consider myself, as a white person, to be someone who has to make the tiny bit of effort it takes to be respectful on this subject. It's not much to ask.

TheSparrowhawk · 05/01/2017 16:22

Allchatted, was there a time in history, that you know of, when being asked 'are you Scandinavian' would have been a reliable indicator that you were about to be abused/thrown out/beaten up/hanged?

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 16:26

Allchatted, was there a time in history, that you know of, when being asked 'are you Scandinavian' would have been a reliable indicator that you were about to be abused/thrown out/beaten up/hanged?

Probably not, but the irony is that I am not Scandinavian- I am German (awks)! And the answer to your question, is yes, I can recall a time in history, not so very long ago when being German in the UK was not such a great thing.....

Lorelei76 · 05/01/2017 16:26

allchattedout - I don't ask those questions of new people either. I find chatting just occurs naturally. Then you can follow on from what people want to share. I might mention anything from Sherlock to yoga to whatever book I'm reading, usually others do the same.

With a new colleague, I probably would ask what they did before but I think that has professional relevance so is okay. I wouldn't ask a new colleague if they were married or had DC or whatever.

Any personal questions I might ask would probably only be if I'd actually gone to have a drink with someone or see them out in a group often.

KnittedBlanketHoles · 05/01/2017 16:27

I don't think it's rude to ask about someone's heritage.

I find it rude to be asked about my heritage.

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 16:28

But I would consider myself, as a white person, to be someone who has to make the tiny bit of effort it takes to be respectful on this subject. It's not much to ask

I do agree with you. And fwiw, I would not ask a stranger in the gym if they were mixed race- also I am not blind and can work out myself if they are mixed race or not. My issue was more with the idea that you can never ask any personal questions about origin or background- I don't think that's true.

TheSparrowhawk · 05/01/2017 16:30

You can of course ask personal questions about origin or background but people might find you rude. If you're ok with that, then go ahead.

merrymouse · 05/01/2017 16:30

However, sometimes when I have had to give my name I get something like 'oh, that's an unusual name- is it xxxx?'. Usually followed by 'it's a lovely name'.

It's not a personal question in the same way - you can just say thank you, yes it is Spanish or whatever. You don't have to feel put on the spot or feel that you need to divulge any personal information.

Also if someone has negative feelings about their heritage, surely it would never be OK to ask them about it, even if it is a new friend or someone you are chatting with at a party.

It's not that clear cut. You don't have to hate your parents to not want to explain to a complete stranger that e.g. your grandfather is Korean, but your mother never knew him so you know nothing about Korea. It's quite easy to bring up subjects that give people the opportunity to talk about themselves without asking them if they are 'half-caste'.

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 16:31

allchattedout - I don't ask those questions of new people either. I find chatting just occurs naturally. Then you can follow on from what people want to share. I might mention anything from Sherlock to yoga to whatever book I'm reading, usually others do the same

OK, I will brush up on my social etiquette! I don't want to upset people. You're right, it's probably better to talk about hobbies/interests and things like that. I have a wide range of friends from lots of different countries and they frequently and without hesitation ask things about heritage and background of strangers (it's a cultural thing I think), so maybe I have allowed myself to become too influenced by that.

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 16:32

It's not a personal question in the same way - you can just say thank you, yes it is Spanish or whatever. You don't have to feel put on the spot or feel that you need to divulge any personal information

But I also get 'are you German?' as well as 'is the name German?'. That IS personal and I then explain that my mum is German, I was born there but grew up here. So that IS a personal question.