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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think this woman at the gym was rude?

196 replies

sofiathesecond · 05/01/2017 13:40

Just finished showering dd at the gym, woman goes 'ooh what lovely hair she has, is she half or quarter-caste?'

Hate the term 'half-caste', I would always say mixed race. Aside from this, I also think asking mine or my daughter's racial identity is a bit rude. HmmAIBU?

OP posts:
AngelaKardashian · 05/01/2017 18:11

Angela "It's also nice knowing if you have common ground with someone. "

agree. but for me that would never be race-linked.

It's not so much race but culture. Food, music, the way your parents brought you up, language, stories, phrases, morals, experiences, the list could go on. Culture is such a huge part of who we are and I do feel that the desire to see everyone as "the same" often eliminates that. Living in the U.K., all of us being "the same" would mean that we all have the same British culture, and we don't.

That being said I can understand why some people wouldn't want to discuss these things. This thread has reminded me that physical appearance isn't always linked to culture and for that reason I won't ask about anyone's heritage again. I totally get that now.

HorridHenryrule · 05/01/2017 18:11

I think it is okay to ask personal questions if you know someone and you see them regularly and chat to them often. How else do you build a relationship with someone if you don't get to know them personally. I think if the person asking the question is genuine and you want to build a friendship with them. I think there is a fine line that people shouldn't cross.

I have been asked if all my kids are from the same man which they are. That is a rank question I didn't even know the b%&ch. A random person asked me who and where the father was from. Why did she want to know but I politely answered.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 05/01/2017 18:11

She was asking a question that is clearly underpinned by (probably unconscious) racist priorities: to know what breed someone is. It was a stupid, intrusive and rude thing to say.

AngelaKardashian · 05/01/2017 18:17

As for the correct language, "half-caste" is rude and if I heard someone say it I would just politely correct them. I would only be offended if they were annoyed about being corrected or if they continued to use it.

"Biracial" and "dual heritage" bother me because they both suggest that you are from two different cultures. You can be mixed with more than two cultures.

"Mixed raced" is perfectly acceptable. It has no suggestion about your worth like "half caste" does (being linked to the 'caste system'), nor does it make presumptions about who you are like "biracial" and "dual heritage" do. It just states exactly what you are: mixed raced.

Thefitfatty · 05/01/2017 18:19

She probably didn't realize she was using racist terminology, anymore than the people who refer too First Nations Canadians as Red Indian or Indian realize they are being racist when they ask me my heritage.

However, knowing that the comment stems from ignorance, not hate, doesn't dull the sting. YANBU to be upset. But! The next time you see her, correct her. Worst case she gets snippy and you never have to talk to her again (no loss) best case, as with many of my friends, they learn something new and appreciate you for politely informing them.

Violetcharlotte · 05/01/2017 18:20

Not PC I agree, but she meant well! I would just try and take the comment in the way it was intended - as a compliment

Motherofhowmany · 05/01/2017 18:25

I can't believe how many people are just brushing off how offensive the word 'half-caste' actually is.

Thefitfatty · 05/01/2017 18:28

The term half caste is incredibly offensive! It makes me cringe! BUT I don't think the woman intended it to be hateful, I think she was just ignorant.

LockedOutOfMN · 05/01/2017 18:40

It's a highly offensive term, but it sounds as though the lady didn't realise.

JigglyTuff · 05/01/2017 18:53

'Your daughter has lovely hair' is a compliment. Anything after that isn't.

Incidentally, my friend's daughter is mixed race and adopted. She doesn't know the answer to the question the woman asked. I can't imagine how shit this woman would have made her feel.

glitterfairydust · 05/01/2017 18:54

I didn't realise that half caste was offensive until about 2 years ago but then I grew up in a racist family

I don't use it anymore - not that I had said it in about 20 years before that (I was describing a person to the police who corrected me Blush)

I am asked all the time where I am from - reading this thread is interesting because I've realised how personal that is.... normally they guess I am from up north then ask why I am here, why I stayed, etc....

I also have an unusual surname that's German - I'm English (Northern English!!)

Some people just like to chat but yeah it can quickly become a bit intrusive

AngelaKardashian · 05/01/2017 18:54

Mother you're right, it is incredibly offensive but I think the reason people are 'brushing it off' is because not many people know what it actually means. You can't be upset with someone over something they don't know. Correcting them is fine. (I'm against 'educating them' about its origins though - not my job!)

VladmirsPoutine · 05/01/2017 19:00

I'm also mixed race and have experienced many of the same interrogations as others but I don't think people are out to be racist or offensive. Perhaps tactless yes, but I wouldn't consider (at least those I've come across), being racist when they ask me about my heritage.

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 19:46

Atleast you are are being asked these questions at a stage of the relationship when you know each other's names!

Merrymouse, it's not a 'relationship' if I go to book an appointment to see my hairdresser or something and the receptionist asks me that!! I am not talking about friends, I am talking about strangers who do know my name, yes, because I have had to tell them for whatever reason.

Snowflake65 · 05/01/2017 19:51

I know one person who uses this phrase regularly.

She uses it to refer to her mixed race / dual heritage daughter, so I am not sure she could be called racist? Even if the term itself is not appropriate.

merrymouse · 05/01/2017 19:57

You have more of a relationship with the receptionist at your hairdresser than a random passing stranger.

Having said that I'd be upset if a hairdresser asked me if my child were 'half caste or quarter caste' and some people don't like overly chatty hairdressers.

It's a question of being sensitive. Of course every one makes gaffs and it is possible to offend somebody unintentionally. However if there is a line, then asking a stranger whether their daughter is half or quarter caste is very far over it.

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 20:00

You have more of a relationship with the receptionist at your hairdresser than a random passing stranger

Oh give over. It's getting silly now. I had never seen the woman before and it was just one example of many- none of whom I have a 'relationship' with. I have explained that strangers ask me about my background based on name and appearance. Not sure why you are trying to deny that this has happened to me when you freely accept the accounts of others.

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 20:03

However if there is a line, then asking a stranger whether their daughter is half or quarter caste is very far over it

Yes, and I agree with that, of course. What I do not agree with is that it is always wrong to ask people (even people you don't know so well) about their background (obviously without using racist terminology). I do not think it is and other cultures certainly aren't as sensitive about it. However, given the responses I have read here, I will be very careful in the future in case it is seen as rude.

merrymouse · 05/01/2017 20:11

I'm not denying that it has happened to you. I am saying that it isn't comparable to being asked a personal question by a complete stranger when you are child wrangling in the gym. I very much doubt that you get stopped in the street and asked about your name.

It's not really a comparable question either. My name comes from a particular part of the U.K. Asking about its origin is a pretty bland question and the answer doesn't have much to do with me. I can answer the question politely without having to explain anything about me, my children or my family background or offensive terminology.

However, in the context of this thread, even if you love being asked personal questions by strangers, the point is that you can't assume that other people do.

AngelaKardashian · 05/01/2017 20:17

Snowflake You can definitely have mixed raced children and still be racist. I've heard white parents of mixed raced children say things like "I don't want her looking too black" or "He's not like typical black kids because he's half white."

I'm not necessarily saying your friend is racist, ignorant yes (and should really learn where "half caste" comes from), I'm just saying her having a mixed raced child doesn't immediately mean she's not racist.

allchattedout · 05/01/2017 20:18

I am saying that it isn't comparable to being asked a personal question by a complete stranger when you are child wrangling in the gym. I very much doubt that you get stopped in the street and asked about your name

But I have been asked about my origin by complete strangers. That's what I was trying to say if you read my posts. Because I have white-blonde hair, I have been asked if I am Scandinavian by complete strangers. I am not- I am of German heritage. So it is entirely comparable. I don't see it as xenophobic (but I see the word half-caste as being completely unacceptable). However, I have also been subject to considerable xenophobic bullying at school in the UK because of my heritage. That was different.

However, as I have said, I will bear in mind the feeling on this thread in the future.

merrymouse · 05/01/2017 20:21

I think you are completely missing the point when you talk about some cultures being more sensitive.

'Cerys is a lovely name, are you Welsh?'
'Yes, blah blah dragons, blah blah rugby'

Or

'No, but Wales is a lovely country, change subject'

Or

'No, but Catatonia were in the charts when I was born'

In contrast to

'Where do you come from?'
'Wales'
'Really, where do you really come from before that?'
'Wales'
'You don't look Welsh'
'Errrm....'

Some questions allow people to choose how much information they want to give, other questions are just rude.

AngelaKardashian · 05/01/2017 20:25

Some questions allow people to choose how much information they want to give, other questions are just rude.

Precisely this, merrymouse!

merrymouse · 05/01/2017 20:26

I have been asked if I am Scandinavian by complete strangers.

I think that is rude and it would be a bit of a stupid question. I would never stop a complete stranger in the street or in a gym changing room and ask them if they were Scandinavian because they had blonde hair. Why would you ask?what does 'Scandinavian' even mean in that context?

However, as previously pointed out, it really isn't the same as being asked if you are half caste.

Cheby · 05/01/2017 20:34

I am mid thirties and I had no idea 'half-caste' was offensive until about 12/13 years ago. It was just a term used in place of mixed race where I grew up, and in fact where I went to uni. I never heard anyone use it while being deliberately offensive, which is why I didn't know it was, and I had also never heard anyone use 'mixed race' at that point.

Obviously now I know I wouldn't dream of using the former term, and now I have thought about it I can fully understand why it is not acceptable. But as a child/teenager/early twenties it had never crossed my mind before plus i wasn't aware there was alternative language. Oh and I didn't live a sheltered life or whatever. Educated, uni, worked in lots of PTT time jobs around studying, moved away from home and met new people. Pre the proliferation of the internet of course (or rather was just all kicking off as I started uni) so maybe less exposure to different people, cultures etc compared to people that age now.

I think the woman's question was misguided but well meant. And so the best thing to do would be to gently point out her language is old fashioned and carry on with your day.

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