How do I stop this unhealthy relationship with helpful but 'out of touch' dad.

[malificent7]

Put this in relationships but reposted here for traffic.

I do love my dad and I don't want to go nc but the dynamics between us just isn't healthy and hasn't been for a long time.
My dad has always been super careful with money to the point of being tight. I remember he had a lot of rows with my mum about cash as I was growing up as she was bipolar and this meant she went on the occasional binge. I felt she was controlled a bit.
When my mum was bullied out of her job my dad gave her a really hard time as he was loosing a wage. She later found out that he had a lot of savings squirreled away.
I'm a bit like my mum in that I am not great with money. I do try and be careful but I think all of the penny pinching/financial times obsessing/ obsession with me getting a job as a doctor or lawyer/ lack of awareness of what made a young girl happy eg;nice clothes etc made me rebel.

So now I am a single mum with a low paid job. I trained as a teacher but the stress made me mentally ill and I was bullied out of a good role in a private school. I have settled for being a Teaching Assistant.

It has been so hard to secure a permanent contract as I have been on supply. This has made it very hard to budget. I have also been hammered for child care. Dad kept making digs that I didn't have a permanent job. Finally I have got a fixed term contract that will probably lead onto a permanent role. Dad is finally happy-ish.

Over Christmas my freezer broke and dad kindly offered to buy me a new one despite me telling him I would buy on credit. I am very grateful.
However, I have also been hammered for an unexpected council tax bill. I asked if I could borrow £20 for petrol and he went off in a tantrum saying that he has already lent me £400 (for the fridge/freezer.)

I have now told him I will pay him back for the freezer as I don't want the emotional blackmail. The thing is , he is absolutely loaded. He did work and save hard but he had a very well paid job as a teacher in the private sector. He loved teaching and he just does not get why I can't hack it.

I just think he is disappointed. My sister is a successful psychiatrist and has married a rich man so he doesn't get why I am so skint. He thinks that benefits are a huge amount. I had to overcome significant mental health issues (eating disorder/ domestic violent issues) to get this far. It is a miracle that I am even employed.

He tells me I should always have a pot of £300 in case of emergencies like the freezer and does not get it at all that I just cannot save.

On the plus side of all this, I have no credit cards or loans so no debts but I am never going to be good enough am I as I'm not rich.

Apparently I am putting him under a lot of pressure. How do I stop relying on my dad.?.he is the only family I have really. it just feels like a shame but I don't want to rely on him any more.

The thing is he is great with dd and she loves him. He normally takes us to Cornwall every year for a break which dd loves and looks forward to. However, as we have not been getting on great and snipe at each other, I am reluctant to keep going on this holiday. I feel trapped in this dynamic.

Camem are you me? Lots of parallels I can completely identify with there.

camem and magic. here too :( been there done that.
somehow i sensed my daughter was very frightened of the next stage/phase of her life.
it has worked out, but it took much longer than expected (till she was 30)
i'm a late bb as well, my husband and i planned extensively so are okay but had to have that "this is the last time" conversation many many times over.

Camem, Out as the child of bb parents,please can I also say - just cut them off. Seriously, you are not doing your children any favours whatsoever by paying for mobile phones, slinging them money etc. It would be different if they were working every hour the day brings and cannot make ends meet, but the entitlement is breath-taking. As you say yourself- they do not even appreciate what you are doing for them.

Your children are adults. I have worked since I was in highschool- and worked all through my university degrees. When I got a low-paying job in my field that did not pay the bills I continued to work on the checkouts at weekends. My closest friend growing up never worked at school- her parents thought she needed to have her time for study. They gave her an allowance. When she was at university again she never worked, was given an allowance. Her grandfather gave her the deposit for a flat, but that was okay apparently because he was rich. When it came time for her to find a proper job she quite literally could not keep one.Her entitlement was overwhelming. She was NOT going to work from the bottom up. She refused to do things we all have to do, like take meeting notes etc as a junior in an office. She went though 6 jobs in 10 months her first year out of university, and that pattern has continued on since then. We are now in our 40s and she has literally never progressed, because she clearly deserves to be at the top of her profession but other people have been too stupid to see her potential and expect her to pay her dues -either that, or people have been mean to her and do not treat her right and she is not going to put up with it. She has not been able to even get a job in her field for some 5 years but that is not her fault, everyone is against her and so she works in a family member's business part time and her parents have just downsized and given her her inheritance now because of course it is all so hard for her.

She has never learned. She has quite literally never learned how to work, how to pay bills, how to stand on her own feet. It's everyone else's fault and she has been so unlucky apparently. Before my children were born she thought I was mad to have a professional job (not paid that well) AND to do a post grad degree part time to try and improve my prospects.

Last year I was working full time - AND doing freelance work in the evenings because DH's job is scaling back quite alot and so we were facing issues paying off our mortgage. She thinks I am nuts, why not ask my parents for a deposit on a house, they could afford it.

I seriously and genuinely think her parents never did her any favours by slinging her money, by propping her up, by shielding her from the real world. She is unhappy, so so unhappy. And resentful. And everyone else is just so awful to her because they expect her to pull her bloody finger out and behave like an adult.

Sorry, that is a bit of a rant. But rather coincidentally I had an e-mail exchange with her last night when she was cursing her parents because they have 'only' given her 20% of the sale of their house and what do they need it for, how selfish they are etc.

You can love your children, you can prop them up, but your job is to prepare them for the real world. And I am frustrated with my friend, and frustrated with the OP of this thread, because they are being propped up all over the place and resent being asked to behave like a fully functioning adult.

And can I just add - you sound like loving, caring parents. Of course you are. I know the very primal urge you feel to take care of your children and to protect them. I know how that feels. But you deserve to save your own money for your own needs and let your children fly free.

Thank you Magic, Out and Shiny especially, whose post has literally made me cry. I have been the same as your friend's parents, DD never had more than a Christmas job for a few weeks, and missed a few days because of sickness. She had a private education and a generous allowance throughout university, we paid for her car etc, because I thought she should have the time to study, we wanted to help her.

I now feel that I got it all wrong, that I am a s**t parent. She is so privileged, but she just doesn't see it, says how hard life is etc, but doesn't seem to see that she needs to help herself.

Maybe, as Out says, she is afraid of the next part of her life. She loves her boyfriend and this relationship, apart from her dog, appears to be the only thing in her life. She has no notion of a life plan, even for 6 months' time, or thoughts of a career. I worry so much about her.

Camem I am sorry, I did not want to make you cry. And you are not a shit parent- you are a loving parent desperate to do the best thing for your DD and to shield her, help her,protect her. We all want to do that as parents, all of us. Every decision you made was a decision you made for what you believe is the best.

So, now your DD needs to take all the amazing chances she has, and use the tools to help herself. That is up to her now.

I've written a similar post on the OPs other thread.... I suspect it's partly an age thing; when you're a young adult you only look at your own set of circumstances and you can't see the bigger picture.

My adult dd and ds sometimes make passing comment about how lucky dh and I are that housing was cheaper for us and we got grants for university. What they dont see is that housing may have been cheaper, but interest rates were massively higher for a huge chunk of our lives, so we were paying shed loads to actually pay for a relatively cheap house.
And uni grants.... when dh and I went to uni, only 8% of the population went, so grants were affordable. Now that nigh on 50% go, it's a very different landscape.

I was probably guilty in the same way... i remember thinking how lucky my own parents were to buy a house for a few grand in the early 60s and for my mum never to earn a serious wage again in her life... now of course I can see that this was very limiting for her and the chance to have a career would have been more fulfilling.

You're not being a crap parent just because your child has a sense of entitlement... sounds like you've been nothing but supportive and for her own sake and self respect she needs to start to stand on her own two feet. Emotional support is one thing, financial support for an adult who just decides they don't want to be a 'wage slave' is quite another. That phrase 'wage slave' is very telling... always used by people either in the privileged position of not needing to work , or who think they're above such things.

Ps- while I think it's not unusual for each generation to envy/blame previous ones for certain things, there is a huge step between thinking these thoughts and actually being entitled and grabby enough to ask for house deposits and top ups

Why do they need a bloody life plan ? Can't they just be in their 20's learning how the world works with their parents easing the way a bit ?
I'm the opposite of many ... grew up in a council estate, went to uni but found myself in some horrible desperate situations due to lack of parent support, financial and otherwise. The friends I have who's parents paid for stuff, allowed them to live at home rent free, bought driving lessons etc have a better life than those of us who didn't. That simple. I will bail my kids out each and every time. What else are you going to do with your money

housing may have been cheaper, but interest rates were massively higher for a huge chunk of our lives, so we were paying shed loads to actually pay for a relatively cheap house

This is such an important point. The reason why prices were low was because interest rates were 17-19%. Now mortgages are more affordable than rents IF you can afford to buy in the first place, so it seems that home owners are winning twice - paying less for an asset that appreciating in value as opposed to the more expensive "wasted" money on rent. But that will only be solved by building more houses.

There will be an adjustment when the BBs die but the increase in life expectancy and rise in single parent families has put a lot of pressure on the housing stock nationally, and the SE is essentially an international property market.

They don't necessarily need a life plan, but surely they need a plan that is something other than refusing to be a 'wage slave' or 'mortgage monkey' while expecting handouts from parents? That is just obnoxious, IMO.

And uni grants.... when dh and I went to uni, only 8% of the population went, so grants were affordable. Now that nigh on 50% go, it's a very different landscape.

That is true but for most jobs, you didn't need a degree so could start earning money at 18. Nowadays many many jobs require a degree and so younger people are forced to do them and take out massive loans before they can start earning money.

My adult dd and ds sometimes make passing comment about how lucky dh and I are that housing was cheaper for us and we got grants for university. What they dont see is that housing may have been cheaper, but interest rates were massively higher for a huge chunk of our lives, so we were paying shed loads to actually pay for a relatively cheap house.

I bought my first house in the South East in the early 90s and although interest rates were a lot higher than today it was still a lot easier than it is now because they were so much cheaper.

As a mortgage wage slave myself I'd say they have the right idea

I bought my first house in the South East in the early 90s and although interest rates were a lot higher than today it was still a lot easier than it is now because they were so much cheaper.

And I know people who went bankrupt or lost their houses because of interest rate rises in the 80s and 90s. It wasn't all sunshine and roses.

75,000 repossessions in 1991.

And I know people who went bankrupt or lost their houses because of interest rate rises in the 80s and 90s. It wasn't all sunshine and roses.

I didn't say it was "sunshine and roses" but a house in the South and London was certainly more affordable than it is today. The repossessions happened because people borrowed too much without taking into account the fact that interest rates could rise in the expectation that house prices would always rise (as they had always done until that point).

I understand Mary, I was just adding another side to the story.

For houses to be more affordable today everyone's houses would have to go down in value. Who's going to vote for that?

Well the bubble burst in 2009 and history didn't repeat itself because the system is now geared to a life time a debt.

Thing is do you think the really rich people moan about their kids not being self sufficient or do you think they seek avenues that ensure the money stays in
The family rather than goes to the tax man ?

I disagree With you marynary that the only reason for repossessions was people overstretching themselves.

We bought a very modest starter home without going anywhere near our maximum loan capacity, but interest rates hiking from 4% to 8% to 12% to 15% in the space of a few months meant we were quickly paying masses more. Unfortunately this conincided with when our dd 1 was born so we had childcare to pay too, without any option of topups, subsidised childcare hours, and no tax credits so that one of us could give up work thereby reducing our household income to qualify.

We were a hairs breadth away from getting our house repossessed- not because of any overstretching or poor decision making on our part but because of runaway interest rates which could turn your life around in a moment

I disagree With you marynary that the only reason for repossessions was people overstretching themselves.

I didn't mean that it was the only reason that any house was repossessed. I meant that it was the reason that house repossessions were so high in the 90s. Many people borrowed more than they should have done because they assumed that house prices would keep rising (as did the banks) but then they couldn't afford the very temporary sudden interest rate rises but couldn't sell because unexpectedly house prices fell (especially in London and the South) and they were in negative equity.
For those that didn't overstretch themselves (like me) and could afford the interest rate rises and ride out the negative equity houses were much more affordable then than now in London and the South.

We were a hairs breadth away from getting our house repossessed- not because of any overstretching or poor decision making on our part but because of runaway interest rates which could turn your life around in a moment

Interests were never as low as 4% in the early 90s. I remember the base rate being more like 13% and whilst it increased a bit it was only for a short period of time and then went down rapidly to about 6%. If you couldn't afford the temporary increase then you did overstretch yourself in my opinion.

I can't stand whinging...
I work full time as a teacher.
Single parent
Three sons
Two with asd.
Long term health problem.
Mark in the evening for exam board.

Grow the fuck up. It's always someone else's fault isn't it?

Wannabe, that sums it up nicely.

It's easier for many to blame others than take personal responsibility for the choices they make.

With all respect I think I know better than some random person on the internet whether dh and I overstretched ourselves in buying a starter home.

We bought in the 80s. Interest rates were much lower than the hikes of the 90s. We went nowhere near our maximum capacity, but when we had our first child and had full childcare costs from age 12 weeks to almost 5 years, tax credits non existent, it almost pushed us to the brink.
That's not to say it isn't bloody difficult for young people nowadays... my own adult dd and ds can't scrape together deposits and ironically pay more in rent than they would on a mortgage which would be dirt cheap now.

Trying to make out any previous generation has had it easy is just nonsense. Financially, my parents generation were perhaps the best off financially in terms of cheap housing and good pensions- but as I've already said, the enforced housewife role, lack of regulated childcare etc meant a lot of missed opportunities for many many women

Is part of the problem rampant consumerism? The need for more and bigger everything?
There is a huge gap between what a person actually needs and what we now have available.
I have 10 nightgowns, wear one or two regularly. I have 2-3 full sets of dishes, use 4 plates regularly.
Can people live on less IF they refuse to give in to shopping for more than basics?

We bought in the 80s. Interest rates were much lower than the hikes of the 90s. We went nowhere near our maximum capacity, but when we had our first child and had full childcare costs from age 12 weeks to almost 5 years, tax credits non existent, it almost pushed us to the brink.

Interest rates were double figures through much of the 80s and never as low as 4%. Houses were very affordable compared with now and you would have benefited from much cheaper house prices which rose very rapidly until 1989 so you could have just sold your house if you couldn't afford the interest rates rather than being repossessed.

Trying to make out any previous generation has had it easy is just nonsense. Financially, my parents generation were perhaps the best off financially in terms of cheap housing and good pensions- but as I've already said, the enforced housewife role, lack of regulated childcare etc meant a lot of missed opportunities for many many women

I'm not "trying to make out" out any generation had it easy. However, with regard to buying houses in London and South in the 80s and 90s than it is now.