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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To remind you all... (MIL related)

220 replies

yoowhoo · 27/12/2016 09:12

If you have a son or daughter, they may get married in the future and that will then make you a MIL...?
Don't get me wrong, some of the MIL threads I do sympathise but I'm getting really sad to see every other thread being a MIL bashing. In particular it's when poor MIL is mother to a son. I just think we all need to step back a bit and think we may be one one day!

OP posts:
MrsLion · 27/12/2016 21:42

I see a lot of Mil threads on MN where I think the dil is being over sensitive, ungrateful or just a bit silly.

For some of us, it is abuse.

Mil tried to break up my marriage on more than one occasion, used to lie about me, turn people against me, blackmail me.
She tried to establish stronger bonds with my children that undermined me as their mother, she criticised me as a person a daughter and a wife, my background, my career, my parenting.
Some of this is very very subtle. Just like an abusive husband, it's done furtively and so others can't see, or via gaslighting. Others would think how charming and kind she was.

She pretended to have a life threatening illness in order to get back control of her son, who was sticking up for me, and tried to financially ruin us (family business nightmare).

Yes DHs have a part to play, but things got worse when DH stood up for me, not better. Shutting her out completely was not an option.

Luckily for me she died 2.5 years ago and my life has been immeasurably better. In every way.
It's obviously sad for her husband, her family etc who were not affected by her behavior, but I'm not ashamed to say I'm extremely glad she's gone.

MagicChicken · 28/12/2016 05:51

A close relationship mother and daughter is always heralded. And the same relationship between mother and son is met with cries of 'mummy's boy' and calls for apron strings to be cut or that the male needs to choose between mother and wife

Perhaps there are an awful lot of very insecure wives/partners/girlfriends.

That is absolutely BANG ON.

It has always been thus, yet it's almost unheard of for husbands to resent their FILs in the same way or for women to resent a close bond between her DH and his father.

And if men don't exactly see eye to eye with their MILs they tend to just avoid spending too much time with them, which is fine. What they don't often do, in my significant experience and observation, is systematically go about trying to control, manipulate and dismantle their wife's relationship with her own mother because they see it as a threat to their own authority. Nor do they insist on tightly controlling access to her grandchildren in order that they can used as bargaining chips, punishments or rewards, or a test where the MIL is automatically set up to fail. Whereas for some bizarre reason that is EXACTLY what so many women seem to do.

Let's face it, we see it ALL THE TIME on here. PG women stressing about his family wanting to see the baby as soon as it's born and they want them all to stay away for at least a week, preferably a fortnight to 'give them space' and 'respect their privacy' and then in the next breath 'of course my mum and dad and sister and best friend will be there before I've even finished having my stitches because they will be supportive, so that's different....' Hmm

Honestly, people have been so fixated for generations women being the possessions of their fathers, to be 'given away' with his blessing to her husband, where he relinquishes control and ownership of her to another man, but from where I am standing it looks as though we women expect the exactly the same thing, just in a more subtle passive aggressive way. That a mother should be prepared to 'release' her grip on her son so that we can control him instead. Confused

It's hardly any surprise, is it really, if the mother of an adult son gets a bit jittery and shows behaviour that is deemed to be clingy or attention seeking. if she sees her son being slowly encouraged or even downright manipulated into becoming more and more distant from his own family and gradually completely absorbed into his partner's family. It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. And him not standing up to it for fear of being called an unsupportive partner or a mummy's boy. So many women seem to have this 'you are either with me or against me' attitude. And then his mum has to watch while his in laws get to build fantastic relationships with her grandchildren that for some hurtful and inexplicable reason she is denied, because she just doesn't get to put the hours in.

I realise how this all sounds (and in case you are wondering I don't have any DILs or DGCs yet so I have no personal axe to grind) but it's actually an extremely common phenomenon and is the inevitable dynamic in so many families.

So many women seem to justify it by saying 'yes but the thing is, my mum is great, normal, easy-going, doesn't interfere, respects my rules about my rules about my children, respects my boundaries, doesn't do things weirdly, whereas DH's mum.......'

Well here's the thing; when it's your own mother you don't really have so many boundaries because you aren't obsessed with keeping her at arms length in the first place. You don't overanalyse every little thing she says and does to find some hidden passive aggressive meaning in it because you already know she's on your side. And women often tend to run their homes and their families in much the same way their mothers did when they were growing up, so it's easy to see your own mum's way as the 'right' way simply because it's what you are used to.

Many men don't really give a stuff how something is done, so long as someone else is doing it and just want an easy life. They tend not to see so many of these little issues as a direct challenge to their authority or their competence, or their place in their wife's hierarchy of importance. Whereas for some reason, lots of women do see them as exactly that and get very, very shirty about all sorts of imagined nonsense.

And if you are the mother of only boys or an only (male) child it must be incredibly upsetting to see it happening and feel powerless to do anything about it.

The more you pull your DH away from this annoying controlling woman that irritates you so, the more panicky and upset she's going to become and the more irritating her behaviour is going to get. Because believe it or not she really loves and misses HER CHILD and wants to be a bigger part of his life than you are currently allowing her (or indeed him) to be, by sulking and stropping every time she tries to just be a normal, involved part of your family, the same as your own mother is.

MrsLion · 28/12/2016 06:22

That might be the case for others magic, and I do agree with a lot of what you're saying. But what you describe is a million miles from my situation.

In my case my parents live overseas. I wish more than anything I was able to foster even an equal relationship with both sets of inlaws but my parents only saw my DC once every 1-2 years when they visited me.

Through various acts of manipulation, blackmail and underhand deception it was made very hard for me to go and visit them. My position in an overseas country with no immediate support or means to leave was exploited hugely. That has changed now thank god and I am able to visit more often.

My inlaws saw my children at least once a week. No I didn't use them for free childcare' either. I made damn sure they never did, it was exactly the kind of thing used against me on the rare occlusion I accepted 'help' or a favour.

Fartleks · 28/12/2016 06:31

Yes I suspect I will be a mil one day. However I suspect I will never have the toddler tantrums my mil has

MagicChicken · 28/12/2016 06:47

Well some people are just very difficult and objectionable characters their whole lives, yet weirdly someone else marries them and has children with them in spite of everything, so it stands to reason that some MILs (and indeed FILs, DILs, SILs and our own precious children) are going to be right pains in the arse and hard to get along with, but they are probably like that with/for everybody, except the sorry bunch of long suffering excusers and enablers who are tied to them by choice or by blood.

But plenty of otherwise perfectly reasonable/normal women seem to be lumbered with the role of pantomime villain simply because their DIL has a permanent stick up her arse and can't cope with what she is determined to see as the 'competition' for her DHs affections. Hmm

Patienceisvirtuous · 28/12/2016 07:29

My mil is a pain in the arse, no question.

Loud, obnoxious, ignorant. Constantly lies and brags.

Talks at me for hours but never asks a question or shows genuine interest in me. If I try to make the conversation a bit more two-way then I'm talked over immediately.

She speaks to DH in a silly, childish voice and refers to him as 'my baby' (colloquial version though) - definitely in the territory-marking vein. Imposes herself on us more than is reasonable - two long nights per week (she lives ten mins drive away) - luckily DH has started to knock this on the head (we both work ft). She constantly makes noises about us spending our weekends, summer holidays, Christmasses at their caravan with them. ...The thought of being talked at for days gives me the sweats.

After a long battle with recurrent miscarriage and infertility, we're now expecting a baby. I am feeling very anxious and vulnerable. Mil just talks at me loudly about how everything will be. That she will be referred to as 'mum' too because the baby is just as much 'hers'. (She was put straight on this immediately). She constantly tells us how things will be once the baby is here, it usually involves her at centre-stage, doing everything. DH is brilliant and shuts her down.

I generally just smile and nod and think 'I'll choose my battles carefully' to minimise bad feeling. On the rare occasions I've stood up to her directly she has snapped at me nastily.

If am honest, I can't bear her. But I love DH, so I will tolerate her with kindness for him.

Fil is fine - reserved, thoughtful, interested. He tends to block her out Confused

Unfortunately, as per stereotypes put forward here, my own mum is brilliant. A good listener, fun, puts no pressure on us, brilliant support. Excited for us - never tries to make it all about 'her'.

I think it's telling that mil has no friends, and doesn't speak to any of her family (she has fallen out with them). My dp's have lots of friends and close relationships with their siblings still.

Oh well, I'd have loved a mil that I got on brilliantly with. But mine is far too self-obsessed for that to ever happen... Sad

MagicChicken · 28/12/2016 07:53

That she will be referred to as 'mum' too because the baby is just as much 'hers'. (She was put straight on this immediately).

Well if that is the truth and honestly not an exaggeration on your part then that is just freaking weird. Shock

Patienceisvirtuous · 28/12/2016 08:14

I swear that is the truth.

I had just made dinner for her, sat down opposite her and she came out with that. DH told her not to be ridiculous and that she is his mum, not the baby's.

stillwantrachelshair · 28/12/2016 08:48

MIL is by no means abuse, mean or unkind.
However we have a generational gap. She was a housewife all of her life and, as a previous poster said, considers that birthday cards, house move cards, retirement cards to all relatives are very important but completely in the domain of the wife. Likewise, she expects me to organise all meet ups, send her pictures of the DC etc. Yet I work full time and earn more than DH.
We are very different women. DH likes the fact that I get on & do things, enjoy the outdoors & various other things that mean I am completely different to MIL.
What really gets me (as this is a behaviour thing) is that her MIL was very interfering so, apparently, she decided not to be. But she takes this to an extreme. She sits & expects to be treated as a very important and precious house guest who will be catered for, entertained etc. The last normal time she came to stay (i.e. not over Christmas) she texted me to say "I'm here" two hours before she was due to arrive, I had to work until my usual time, then got stuck in traffic so called & asked if she could walk around the corner to collect the DC from the cm "but she didn't like to impose", collect the kids, listen about their days, bath them, do reading etc etc and then go downstairs to be told the house was very cold when she arrived (yes, you got here early so I hadn't set the heating up for then) and that, if DH was home, she would have been offered a glass of wine by now failing to spot that DH wasn't home (stuck in meetings) so I had had to do the pick up, bath, bed etc malarkey by myself whilst she read her book downstairs. I did ask her if she would like to read a story to the DC (as I do every month when she comes to stay but she didn't). She has just spent three nights with us over Xmas and never helped with anything...not laying the table, not clearing the table, not doing the dishes. I now just accept that this is what she is like & smile sweetly. I wouldn't normally invite a guest who behaves like that back again though.

Scaredycat3000 · 28/12/2016 13:45

Magic you are so far from the truth it's laughable, and insulting to those of us that has tried so hard to get on with our IL's for years only to get it thrown back at us. 20 years ago MIL's antics mostly went unnoticed, all was well in the world. Today FIL's degenerative condition, four GC, various dramatic hospital visits of family members are all made considerably worse by her obsession to make it an PR opportunity for herself. Obviously she will tell you a very different story, but then I've seen the reality and her lies, twists, manipulation, self obsession and the pain in OH's eyes as she hurts him. Nobody matters to MIL except MIL in her quest to be seen as a good caring person, at any cost. Which is the opposite to my GM, paternal, who openly bragged about how horrible she could be to her own family. And she was truly horrible. Though it's the little things that hurt the most, I remember her ignoring my answers to her questions, just as MIL ignores my DC's answers to her questions. It's all the petty things my GM did that builds up and sticks.

Krampus · 28/12/2016 14:22

A close relationship between mother and daughter isn't always heralded, well not amongst my friends. Normal adult relationships are and a certain amount of detachment, we're adults now and run our own lives. My Mum had a snipe at me a while ago because we don't go out shopping together, I asked around and none of my friends did that type of thing with their mums or had them frequently popping over etc I think she was getting confused with rose tinted adverts.

There's nothing wrong with having a close relationship with your mum or course.

crunched · 28/12/2016 14:26

Thanks for the post op & Magics insightful comments.
I hope to be a loved MIL one day. I hope my DIL will include me in her life. Mostly though I hope she and my DS make each other happy.

ollieplimsoles · 28/12/2016 14:39

Magic I actually really liked your post and thought you were spot on about lots of things. Its just the attitude I went into a relationship with dh with when it came to his mother.

She would constantly say things like 'we are a very close family' and 'my boys would do anything for me'. I was the first gf on the scene so I decided to take a step back, realise she must see me as a threat and that she didn't like change.

But her relationship with her son has been ruined by no one else but her. She controlled him his whole life and when he 'escaped' and saw how other families are he realised all on his own just how awful she was.
But I kept letting it slide: When she banned me from his birthday party, I shrugged and let it go. He didn't like it at all because she was controlling him again (is was his 20th birthday) so he said either Ollie comes or I don't. There have been many instances of this kind of thing and dh said he always 'chose' me because he was worried his mum would drive me away by her unkindness.

I do think that some Mils have a pre-set view of dils just as you suggested the opposite. My mil made this mistake and all I ever wanted was to be her friend.

lavenirestanous · 28/12/2016 14:44

My MIL is mostly ok - any differences have been because she is very much of a mind that wives should do everything for their husbands - a very 50s housewife mentality that is old fashioned even for her generation (my mum was the same age, but much more modern in outlook), has never worked since 1953, and tended to infantilise her husband and son.

I think this time of year highlights any niggling differences and people won't be moaning on here about lovely MILs!

MagicChicken · 28/12/2016 14:53

Yes ollie I think you are probably right, it works both ways.

DinosaursRoar · 28/12/2016 15:13

Magic - I think actually, it's more to do with the traditional roles within the family. Woman still very much the primary care-givers in families, put bluntly, they are responsible for 'family life' - woman are more likely to look after the children, make the family visiting arrangements, more likely to be responsible for food, planning /buying Christmas and birthdays, anything to do with the homelife.

MIL complaint threads on here often boil down to MILs wanting to continue to hold the role as "primary woman in the family" - the one who makes the family homelife decisions relating to young children in the family, rather than being prepared to relinquish control of these to the DIL who is now the person doing the 'active childrearing'.

As men's traditional roles are more about working to pay for everything, they are less likely to come into conflict with their FIL - unless their FIL tries to continue to control finances of his daughter, most adult woman would resent this so it's less likely to happen. (This might become more of an issue in the future when more men are doing the primary caring for children).

The conflict between different ways of parenting the young children of the family between MIL and DIL is less likely to be repeated with the woman's own mother as so many see their parents way of doing things as the 'normal' way, so less likely to be in conflict.

I get on very well with my MIL, but a lot of that has been her determination not to try to impose her way of doing things on to me/SIL when we have had our DCs. I know she did things very differently, but has accepted her 2 DILs different approaches to raising DCs/running a home (SIL and I are very different). MIL has taken the view grandparents 'fit in', not DILs, that makes life so much easier for everyone.

We have tried to incorporate some of DH's family traditions in with mine, as well as doing things 'our way', but those have been the ones that mattered to DH.

Plus, it's a lot easier to tell your own mother to fuck off if she's being a nightmare, harder to tell your MIL if that's also going to upset your DH (who is unlikely to be upset if you argue with your mum).

ollieplimsoles · 28/12/2016 15:25

MIL has taken the view grandparents 'fit in', not DILs, that makes life so much easier for everyone.

That's where my mil has gone so wrong I think Dinosaurs she always expected to be able to control any dil she might have and she managed it for a while.

She suffers alot with trying to be the head of the family still.

DinosaursRoar · 28/12/2016 15:34

Ollie - you see it so often, MILs (and sometimes DMs!) who can't accept they aren't the ones 'in charge' of raising the children when grandchildren come along. Who are used to telling everyone how things will be organised, without factoring in their DCs are adults now and get to decide for themselves - along with their partner!

RestlessTraveller · 28/12/2016 15:50

My DP's mum is terminally ill and is unlikely to be around for our wedding next year. She lives over 200 miles away and I've only met her a handful of times, she is lovely though. I wish with all my heart that she wasn't ill and will be around to be a wonderful MIL.

RemyRelax · 28/12/2016 15:59

From my experience, if the MIL makes the future DIL welcome from the very beginning then there won't be major issues. But when there is criticism and expectations that the DIL is the one who is supposed to make all the effort then resentment sets in.

I have made effort from the start, MIL wasn't remotely interested in me, would always attempt to exclude me in favour of SIL yet once I had children she wants to be involved all the time. It doesn't work like that - you can't treat people badly then expect it all to be forgotten when you want to be involved. In contrast, my DM has treated my DH like a Son from day one. Always makes him welcome and so he is fully at ease when in my parents company. He will pop in to see my parents even if I'm not with him. There is no way my MIL would want to see me if her Son wasn't there.

Scaredycat3000 · 28/12/2016 17:50

That is very much my experience Dino with both my paternal GM and my MIL.
I have often been expected to be second in command, for example I was expected for years to mother BIL because we both lived in London, despite him living the opposite side to us and him being older than myself! It was mostly about his food intake, her obsession.

ghostspirit · 28/12/2016 17:54

I agree I made a thread the other day for positive things for mum in laws it did not take of like the bashing ones do. But I guess it's right people don't post so.much if things are good

frogsgoladidahdidah · 28/12/2016 18:10

My MIL had a mean, overbearing and interfering MIL. She swore never to be that way herself, and was lovely to me for 7 years, until we had children. Then the focus shifted from being on her to being on me and the baby. Now everything I do is generally considered bat shit crazy. And she ignores all of my requests regarding the children, and accuses me of things like not telling her when the children and I visit the area or little bits of news. Which can be rather upsetting for me. She tells DH that I make her uncomfortable (despite me bending over backwards to get everything right when she comes to stay) and complains about my parents too.

Now we have whatsapp conversations with DH and FIL, so there are witnesses and proof (although on boxing day she was still insisting that I had not told her one small nugget of news, despite being shown the evidence). I can just about manage whatsapp relations but I struggle massively in person because she is just so manipulative.

worrierandwine · 28/12/2016 18:11

People bash on here for everything, you can't swing a cat without offending someone or raising heckles on mumsnet, it's a bloody joke sometimes, I think folk just come here for a argument. My MIL is lovely, as is her son Smile

mumto2two · 28/12/2016 18:12

Not sure who made the comment here that some DILs get the MILs they deserve..but whoever did, well what can I say..it would honestly take just one day with mine to see how crass and unfair that statement is. I never had an issue with my first MIL, we weren't exactly close, we were generationally different, but she was thoughtful and respected our autonomy as a family. My own mother was also the perfect MIL to my brothers wife, and she wholeheartedly agrees. However..my current MIL is a stuck up domineering cold hearted matriarch, who has taught me more about female manipulation tactics than any bully I ever met at school.
I am far from possessive or insecure, but given a chance she would have moulded a mummy's boy. Thankfully he moved abroad before she could succeed.
She has moulded her now middle aged daughter's into pandering clones who have always struggled with relationships of their own, -and constantly tries to paint the perfect family picture with her at the helm.
Yes she wanted to spend as much time with her GD when she was born, but thought it ok to just assume that she could come..and wanted to stay with us for 3 months, turning up 2 weeks before I was due. Is that something we spiteful dils should just put up with?? Well I am sorry..I don't think so!
And so what if a dil wants her own mum at the birth or there soon after..but not the MIL. Whatever you are comfortable with is acceptable in my opinion. Personally, I had neither, and my first MIL had no issue whatsoever with coming to visit when dd1 was a week old. But current MIL is a law unto herself, and hugely affronted that she couldn't be in the room giving birth! The most personal private experience..and some people think that's ok??!
In my experience..it's the MILs who actually make it known they want to be there/visit straight away to 'help' with the baby etc..are not doing it because they genuinely want to help..they are doing it for their own selfish satisfaction..and my own MIL is a classic case in point!

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