To think my friend has failed her kids

[PinkSlipperQueen]

I know its her choice but i feel shes failed them as she had the responsibility to actually teach them and she hasn't. She does very little with them and it's bloody aparent.

She has 4 children that she supposedly "home schools" but yeah the oldest ones 14 and 16 are obviously lacking big time they seem to be more like 10 year olds in the way they act and talk. She pulled them out before secondary school so they have basically no secondary education and the youngest have hardly any basic education. She hands them work while shes cleaning the house etc but they basically just play playstation all day and not much else.

I juat feel like shes failed them by not letting them have a basic state education. Her reason for taking them out was that she didn't like secondary school and didnt want them to go through it

No randomised studies have been done in the UK

'I am very about home schooling. I have a friend who thought about it and she would have been a fab home schooler, but decided not to due to the social aspect.

It ought to be regulated imo and in general terms I'm not sure it does children many favours being separated from their peers for such a length of time'

Argh!!!
My 2 autistic children have loads of friends through home ed. We have 9 different groups we will be attending each week next term as well as one off events and workshops, play dates, soft play meets, film nights etc. Socialisation is not an generally an issue with home ed. Our children are being socialised all the time. The children sat in a class with 30 children their age and 1 (maybe 2) adults is a very artificial community that bares little resemblance to most of the 'real world' encounters they will have once they leave the education system.

Like others have said what other people see of our home ed lives on social media is such a tiny fraction of what we do each day. I don't post that my daughter is 9 but working at GCSE level in maths, I don't post the long list of books she reads each week, I don't post the vast majority of how we spend our time because frankly no one else is really that interested.

I agree we all have a moral obligation to make sure the children around us aren't suffering from any kind of neglect but I do think it's important to understand the difference between peoples opinions and facts. The immediate assumption that socialisation will be lacking and that parents wont be clever enough to teach their children is shocking! My mum taught in schools my entire life and she would tell me straight that they will employ anyone with a pulse to teach certain subjects because getting highly skilled graduates who want to take on the job is difficult. I was taught A-level chemistry by a teacher who only scored a D grade GCSE equivalent in his o-levels (he was a great teacher actually). I know several primary teachers who scraped their GCSE's and several secondary teachers who had to take the basic maths tests several times before they could pass that aspect of their PGCE. Please do not be under the illusion that schools are filled with the most elite people in their subjects as this is sadly often not the case (don't get me wrong there are some awesome teachers out there).

If you feel a child is being neglected, truly neglected and not just parented in a way that differs to your own parenting style then please please do speak to SS and protect them. If you think a child is being home educated but the child is genuinely spending all their time playing games consoles (and this has been going on for some time and not just a couple of weeks 'off' - home ed kids deserve 'school' holidays too) then please talk to your local LA and voice your concerns. If however you don't actually know the situation at all then please talk to the families (in a non aggressive way). Most families are passionate about what they are doing and are happy to chat with people who are genuinely interested and not judging them based on their own stereotypes.

Why are HE parents so defensive?

No one is saying HE is a bad idea?

The op suggested that ONE parent who is doing HE is not doing a brilliant job of it and cue loads of people saying 'well schools are probably crap' or 'they don't need a formal education to succeed' etc.

Point is that regardless of what you think of formal schooling, it's irrelevant. HE is the subject, not formal schooling. Plenty of threads slating schools and their various staff on here on a regular basis. And there's always plenty of reasoned debate and suggestions about how things can be resolved.

But mention HE in a negative light and all hell breaks out. It's like no-one is allowed to even contemplate suggesting that not all parents who HE are doing it because they have the best interests of their children or that they are doing a good job.

One post I read a while ago from a woman who was HE said her 10 year old couldn't read. At all. And showed no interest in it so she wasn't going to bother trying to teach her. But it was fine, because she likes watching nature programmes on TV. Literally, the entire child's education was coming from the TV. She did nothing with her. Wasn't involved in any groups or classes, no trips. She stated that there was loads of things she could watch on TV and she was learning from that.

Now tell me that's a successful HE parent.

Yup - that's what I said Windy - that the failings of a range of professionals were identified as well as (in these cases) the impact that the decision of the parent(s) to HE.

Glad to hear that nobody said that there were no issues with HE. I look forward to hearing HE organisations finally acknowledging that there are issues for some children and in the interests of all children, agreeing to some appropriate system of registration and monitoring (but I won't be holding my breath).

Having met so many fantastic HE families I don't need persuading of the benefits for many children. I just hold in my head the needs of those children trapped in awful situations at home where the parents use HE guidance to keep the state away from their children and the children are trapped in nightmarish situations.

mycatsapirate I would agree with you there - that parent has clearly missed the point of their role as a facilitator and I would hope that their relaxed attitude would reduce over the next year or 2. I do know a lot of children who are home educated read later than their schooled peers but often over take them quite quickly once they start but personally I would feel quite uncomfortable taking the gamble.

The op suggested that ONE parent who is doing HE is not doing a brilliant job of it and cue loads of people saying 'well schools are probably crap' or 'they don't need a formal education to succeed' etc.

Because based on what the OP has said, she's got no idea what the woman is doing regarding home ed. She's making assumptions based on her own judgemental ideas. Not an ounce of fact involved.

No. I've been here for a very very long time. Did yuo mean to be so rude? '

Really? Then why don't you know the purpose of MN? And that OP is using MN for exactly that purpose?

As to rude, you are kidding right? Your posts are the embodiment of unnecessary belligerence and extreme defensiveness. Calm down. No one here is criticizing the way YOU homeschool. This is about OP's concerns.

The above is for ginger

Ginger >"Not an ounce of fact involved."

Get out! Go back and reread OP's posts. You are sounding extremely biased and unreasonable now.

Really? Then why don't you know the purpose of MN? And that OP is using MN for exactly that purpose?

As to rude, you are kidding right? Your posts are the embodiment of unnecessary belligerence and extreme defensiveness. Calm down. No one here is criticizing the way YOU homeschool. This is about OP's concerns.

Nope. Not kidding. I wasn't aggressive. I simply asked if you meant to be rude, as you came across that way.

I'm perfectly calm. You, on the other hand, seem a bit overwrought.

I'm well aware of the purpose of MN. If AIBU is too much for you, perhaps you might want to stick to other chat topics. Maybe something light and fluffy.

Get out! Go back and reread OP's posts. You are sounding extremely biased and unreasonable now.

Get out?

Chat is fairly light and fluffy.

I'm finding the irony of telling someone to calm down and then to get out within minutes very amusing. misshelena have a and a lie down, you're getting awful het up

It is far more complex than that, london. Failure of the agencies involved, were the biggest criticisms (one of whom was taken to court). You mention HE leaving them 'solely' in the parents care. One of the families had extremely low attendance rates when they were registered with a school ( and many whole terms missed) not including time periods when they were just withdrawn from school with no mention or intention of home education.

Yes, she is failing her children big time.

Yes, you can judge people. Some people deserve to be harshly judged. And it sounds like this is one of those cases.

Get out?

I home ed my children and this thread has been a real eye opener for me. We have a designated LA lady who comes once a year to see us. It is an informal visit I suppose and she is a very lovely lady but she is definitely there to check that we are educating our children and also that we are making sure they socialise etc. We show her some of the children's work and chat about the things we've been doing. She is an invaluable support to us too, she gives advice on lots of things to do with home ed - links with the local college for GCSEs, links with the library, museum, other home ed groups etc, and is always there on the end of the phone if we need any advice. She is very supportive of home ed too and we certainly don't feel judged by her, it feels as though she has our backs.
I can't believe that other LAs don't have this and that people are just left to it.
I am lucky that I have an Eng Lit degree and my Dh has a science degree and we have teachers and other academics on the family so between us we're able to cover all bases. But it can still be a challenge. To think that some families are left to it is quite worrying.
I think all home ed families should have someone there to, not necessarily check up on them, but definitely to pop in annually to offer advice and support.

People aren't usually left to it, aspider. The only way to 'avoid' contact with the LA is to never have registered with a school in the first place. I know of very few people nowadays who are not known to the LA.

Even those who have never registered with a school will end up taking their child to the dentist or doctor or A&E, and they always ask about schooling, and that info goes straight to the LA. And voila. On the radar. LA then follows up.

Sigh...
Windy Children who are home educated have no access to others unless the parents agree or other agencies battle through using a range of powers. I agree that a range of other agencies were criticised in the above child deaths and quite rightly - I've stated that all along!
However, the decision by the parents to HE was a significant factor and removed the child from the sight of adults who may have been able to protect them.
I don't understand why it is so difficult to acknowledge this straightforward fact? . It all seems a bit 'post truth'.

There are some who will never acknowledge any issues with HE. I remember a MNer on a HE thread talking about how her parents HE to make it easier for them to abuse her. She also said if she had went to school, she would have disclosed. She was dismissed totally by a few who continue to argue against anyone who points out any issues.

However, the decision by the parents to HE was a significant factor and removed the child from the sight of adults who may have been able to protect them.
It didn't impact on their ability to be 'seen' that was acknowledged in the report... "The home education arrangement did not in itself expose Child T to physical harm or prevent him from being „seen‟ (literally) by professionals."
They were off roll, not home educating just missing education for vast time periods. Thought to have left the country at one point.

Agree with London Home Educating removes at least one option of a non-related adult for an abused or neglected child to disclose to. Doctors and dentists are at the whim of the parent(s) and may be subject to 'rules' about what they say (in abusive homes, obviously not all HE homes before anyone assumes I meant that).

An LA cannot insist on following up if the parent refuses access to the child / home. Unless the LA has reason to believe that the child is at risk in some way then there are powers that they can use but (as with all issues) these must be used proportionately.
Is it proportionate for an LA to insist on seeing a HE child where the parents wish no contact? Some of these families are simply those with an issue about a perceived 'intrusive state'. The reality will be that their children are fine.
And some will be children at risk but may have hostile / aggressive parents where it will take many hours of coordinated work between education, education welfare, social services and sometimes the legal department to plan and carry out any engagement with the family and resolve whether a parent's right to home educate supersedes their child's right to a good education.

Also most children see the Dr or Dentist with their parent present. A less than ideal setting to disclose any abuse.

I remember that bratsy its defensiveness gone mad!!