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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think my friend has failed her kids

241 replies

PinkSlipperQueen · 22/12/2016 14:54

I know its her choice but i feel shes failed them as she had the responsibility to actually teach them and she hasn't. She does very little with them and it's bloody aparent.

She has 4 children that she supposedly "home schools" but yeah the oldest ones 14 and 16 are obviously lacking big time they seem to be more like 10 year olds in the way they act and talk. She pulled them out before secondary school so they have basically no secondary education and the youngest have hardly any basic education. She hands them work while shes cleaning the house etc but they basically just play playstation all day and not much else.

I juat feel like shes failed them by not letting them have a basic state education. Her reason for taking them out was that she didn't like secondary school and didnt want them to go through it Hmm

OP posts:
GingerHollyandIvy · 22/12/2016 19:16

Inspections and regulations do not help individual students. How many students fall through the cracks between inspections? How many go through without the needed skills before regulations of some sort kick in? How many more before changes at the school are decided upon? Organised? Implemented?

I think most on here have stated that just as there are bad schools, there are parents that may not be doing a good job with HE. We've also stated that the LAs are involved in most cases. Very few families are able to stay completely under the radar. They'd have to avoid doctors, dentists, and the LA. If a child has SEN at all, they will need to go through the GP to get to a paed or CAMHS, and the LA is notified if they are home ed, so they can follow up. Everything is linked.

Graphista · 22/12/2016 19:16

London333 even children that go to school are abused/show obvious Signs of abuse aren't identified/don't necessarily disclose - that was true for me and my siblings - just as a counterpoint.

brasty · 22/12/2016 19:17

I have also heard too many HE parents talking about doing maths through counting change and similar activities. Obviously not all parents, but there seem to be a size able number who only see value in arithmetic, but not in maths.

JayDot500 · 22/12/2016 19:17

This thread is hilarious. OP comes here to state what she sees and defenders of HE are here for the kill.

Why do you all, those who have never even met the friend or her kids, think the OPs opinion couldn't possibly be true? I think it's pretty obvious to know if the mother is making adequate effort to school her children. The OP hasn't come here with an agenda against HE. She is simply making an observation. Home schooling vs School isn't the point here. It's a case of the mother not seemingly educating her children, and that IS a point to get flustered about. Just as we would if a school let its pupils fall behind with nothing more than a shrug. So, when these kids eventually go into the world ill prepared to even apply to the lost basic jovs, we can blame a school, but not a mum? Hmm

OP I would advise you to encourage your friend when she makes these remarks. Perhaps this will allow her to be more open with you, and maybe even you might see things differently.

FunnysInLaJardin · 22/12/2016 19:18

I am very Hmm about home schooling. I have a friend who thought about it and she would have been a fab home schooler, but decided not to due to the social aspect.

It ought to be regulated imo and in general terms I'm not sure it does children many favours being separated from their peers for such a length of time

brasty · 22/12/2016 19:20

Yes the old stuff about how HE still see Drs and Dentists. So what. If they are receiving no education or are neglected a Dr or Dentist is unlikely to pick that up. A Dr might pick up signs of physical abuse, that is all.

Graphista · 22/12/2016 19:22

Jaydot I based my response on

the tone of the ops posts (which were in my opinion prejudicial)

the Information she gave (she's only known them a few months, is basing her assessment on a few meetings with the children where she's been in their home when the home ed mum may well have adjusted her routine due to op being there, a few comments from the home ed mum that are of the type many mums make about kids not wanting to do school work/preferring to play video games)

And honestly the ops own lack of literacy (yes I appreciate op may be dyslexic etc)

london333 · 22/12/2016 19:24

Graphista
Of course some children who go to school are abused - fail to disclose etc. I would never argue otherwise.
I have tried to be specific that many children who are home educated (in my experience) thrive and their parents do a fantastic job.
However as I predicted, any criticisms of HE are always met with a torrent of 'ah buttery....' and a failure to acknowledge that the needs of a small minority of children are always thrown under the bus by a community who frankly should know better. I've watched it happening for twenty plus years and have no illusions that the vociferous anti monitoring HE community will suddenly start to appreciate the needs of this vulnerable group.

Beeziekn33ze · 22/12/2016 19:24

Home Ed can be fine and give children a wide practical and academic education. Or it can be a cover up for abuse of several kinds by inadequate or mentally ill parents.
What is needed is regular and sensitive unscheduled check ups by local authorities. But there's no funding in many UK LEAs, is there?

brasty · 22/12/2016 19:25

Totally agree london333

GingerHollyandIvy · 22/12/2016 19:28

I have a friend who thought about it and she would have been a fab home schooler, but decided not to due to the social aspect.

What social aspect? My dcs have more friends and social clubs/activities now than they had in school.

The social aspect in school? The bullying? How many "loners" are in school that have no friends, not involved in any clubs or activities? Quite a few that I remember!!

brasty · 22/12/2016 19:28

"Don't underestimate how everyday life produces opportunities to learn. Trips to the supermarket? Maths, budgeting, socialisation, reading, writing (a list). Its all there!"

These are the kind of statements that worry me. Fine for young children, but that is all.

user1480267413 · 22/12/2016 19:32

Maybe she is failing, I wouldn't know. As long as she doesn't teach them to use "basic" or "basically" four times in a short amount of time that would be a bonus!! Perhaps you might want to check in case you have passed this annoying trait onto your children before criticising her.........

GingerHollyandIvy · 22/12/2016 19:32

*What is needed is regular and sensitive unscheduled check ups by local authorities. But there's no funding in many UK LEAs, is there?

Why would they need unscheduled check ups?! You're aware that children that are home educated are not sitting at home at the table doing paperwork all day, right? We're out at clubs, activities, educational and social meetups, classes.

Unscheduled check ups would be a nightmare. It'd be a huge waste of money trying to catch people while they are at home, playing phone tag trying to sort when they are home.

GingerHollyandIvy · 22/12/2016 19:42

It ought to be regulated imo and in general terms I'm not sure it does children many favours being separated from their peers for such a length of time

I only know one home educated child that doesn't attend numerous clubs and activities with other children every week. That particular child has special needs and cannot cope with very much social pressure, but is slowly making progress. That child was also at the point of permanent exclusion from a second school when they began home education, so it's not like school was really that much of a good thing for him at that point.

windypolar · 22/12/2016 19:43

Home education was not a factor in their deaths. Nothing to do with it. Social services were already and continually involved with those families (two of them at least) and whilst they were at school also. One of them was already on a child protection plan.

Khyra was known to be at risk by the agencies whose job it was to protect her both before and after her withdrawal from school. The unpleasant fact is that parents who want to abuse children have ample opportunity wherever their children's education is taking place.

“Had the single visit they requested your social services department make to the family home been undertaken in December 2007 – and factoring in the reasonable period of approximately three weeks to obtain a care order thereafter – the children would have been removed into local authority care no later than January 9, 2008. It is very likely that the death of Khyra Ishaq would have been prevented.”

GingerHollyandIvy · 22/12/2016 19:45

There are loads of children that died due to abuse while they were attending school regularly. Does that mean we shouldn't have children attend school? Hmm

The unpleasant fact is that parents who want to abuse children have ample opportunity wherever their children's education is taking place.

This.

RedOrangeGoldLeaf · 22/12/2016 19:53

imo people who wish to home ed need to be made clear what it involves and that they have to ensure that the dc are at an educational level comparable to school.

Well, since studies show home educated children on average do better than schooled children, PinkSwimmingGoggles, perhaps we ought to be demanding parents who delegate their responsibility to educate their children ensure their DC are at an educational level comparable to home ed?

Can't remember the poster's name, sorry, but a PP early in the thread seemed to assume that because her friend posts lots on FB about messy play and social stuff and not about academics that the academic side is neglected. My FB looks similar, for three reasons: friends and relatives would rather see the funny pic of DS playing dress up with his friends or covered in mucky stuff or chasing the animatronic T-Rex at a local fun day, than his writing etc, a lot of our learning is conversational or reading, and partly because he's doing so damn well academically it would be boasting! HE is so efficient, that even higher up primary a child wouldn't need more than an hour or two at most each day, so you can't assume that because a DC is doing so much other stuff that they have no time for academics.

BluePancakes · 22/12/2016 20:03

imo people who wish to home ed need to be made clear what it involves and that they have to ensure that the dc are at an educational level comparable to school.

Except, of course, according to the governments own standards it is specifically mentioned that this is NOT the case: " The type of educational activity can be varied and flexible. Home educating parents are not required to match school-based, age-specific standards "

(Note: I'm simply quoting the guidelines. All HE kids I know closely, without SEN, are academically above school equivalent aged peers.)

london333 · 22/12/2016 20:04

windypolar
All of these children were withdrawn from school and died while they were solely under the care of their parents. It WAS a factor, one of a number in their deaths.
Serious case reviews look at the totality of a child's life and death and quite rightly call out the multitude of failings from professionals and parents surrounding them - they are usually complex families and the ability to home educate is one of many factors. In ideal cases, abusive families are told that they may NOT home educate and their child's attendance at school is enforced. But where there is no prior evidence of abuse, it is more difficult.
Denying that the decision to home educate these murdered / neglected children was not a factor in their deaths is foolish.
I never understand why HE parents are so determined to try to prove that there are NO issues with HE. It defies logic, common sense and compassion for the vulnerable.

brasty · 22/12/2016 20:15

No studies do not show that HE children do better. Only studies that show that are those who appeal to parents to take part in the studies. That is self selecting. To be meaningful studies would be randomised.

brasty · 22/12/2016 20:18

A randomised study was done on HE in the US. It showed HE children had above average literacy and verbal skills, and below average for maths skills.

windypolar · 22/12/2016 20:19

Nobody said there are no issues at all with HE. Don't make things up now, london

Read your own links again if unclear. Agencies were also involved, and had been whilst they attended school. Failure by social services to act on reports (I've quoted a bit up thread) was one quite important factor. I knew you would mention these cases which is why I asked you to provide examples.

GingerHollyandIvy · 22/12/2016 20:26

A randomised study was done on HE in the US.

We're not in the US.